Author Topic: Danny is going after Josh Smith before he goes after Gortat. Here's why....  (Read 7357 times)

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Re: Danny is going after Josh Smith before he goes after Gortat. Here's why....
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2012, 04:48:32 PM »

Offline chambers

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The reason we would go for gortat is because we have too many jump shooters in the starting five already. Our best celtics lineup in the last five years was with rondo, Allen, pierce, kg, and perk and perk certainly couldn't shoot. Gortat would be wide open under the hoop all the time with rondos penetration

So you think that Danny and Doc would rather steer towards the pick n roll starting five with Rondo dishing?
Remember there's much less room for Rondo to operate in the paint with Gortat in there than Bass moving out to 15 feet and taking his defender with him. I'm not saying this won't work. It worked very well with Shaq getting easy lay off's from Rondo.
But has Rondo become a better player with more space in the paint to work with?

Remember it's also not just about offense, it's about Kevin Garnett on the defensive end. How does KG go against Ibaka in a 7 game finals series?
Would we rather have Josh Smith on Ibaka and KG on Perk?
Or Smith on Amare and KG on Chandler?

I think Smith is a better all round defender than Gortat.
Who would be better against the Heat? Gortat or Smith? You could make arguments for both.
I just want people to weight the Smith vs Gortat debate up on both ends of the floor because most of the stuff I've seen really only implies offense.

Rondo makes both of them look good too- better than they currently look for sure.

Going back to offense, I think part of Rondo's ability to flourish into the assist king of the NBA is the space that our KG/Bass offense gives him.

You are completely missing the point.

Just because Gortat is our 5, doesn't mean he has to defend the other teams 5.
 

When we played Miami (before Bosh started to play center) Doc would cross match with KGon Bosh and Bass on Joel Anthony (because he's not an offensive threat).

We could very easilly start Gortat at 5 but put him on Ibaka, and start KG at the 4 and put him on,Perk.  There is no NBA rule stating that you must matchup with the same positions.

Initially I was very much on the "Josh smith over Gortat" bandwagon, but the more I think about it the more I think Gortat is better for us.

Firstly Josh Smith will not likely come in the future for any less than a max contract.  Even his current contract is quite large.  We'd need to send Green and Bass/Lee just to match contracts, and we'd probably need to include Bradley too to make them bite.  If we get him hell take up major cap space, and we really don't know how good he's going to get.  Gortat is only on 7.5M for the next couple of years, and that's q bargain for a guy who's capable of averaging 15/10/2.5 in the right system.  To get him we'd not need to lose Green - the contract is small enough that Lee or Bass on their own is almost enough to match.  Phoenixo think are more desperate to ditch him, while Atlanta seem content to hold on to Smith until a great offer cones their way. That all means we can prob get Gortat for a,lot,less.

Next theres size.  Smith is athletic but he's only 6'9".  Having KG + Gortat gives us two 6'11" guys on the floor at the same time.  I can see Doc playing small with Josh Smith spending time at Center - no fear of that with Gortat out there.  I also see lebron/battier defending Smith easier then they could Gortat, who could shoot straight over guys like that the way people do to Bass now.

As for jump shots, last I heard Smith was shooting about 30% from midrange - you really want him taking shots to dare people ?

Finally I have no problem with KG defending PF's.  So far this season I've seen him switch out on guards and SF's and he was able to put pressure on them and stick with them mist the time.  A PF (outside of LeBron) should really be no problem for him.

I actually think you're missing the point.
Obviously there is no rule about who must guard who on defense but if you put Gortat on Ibaka there is an instant mismatch.
You're acting like it's just Doc's choice who KG guards. Unfortunately, you have no choice against most elite NBA teams. There's a reason Doc put KG at center last season.
You're claiming we can put KG on anyone and he can guard anyone in the NBA, but just as Doc Rivers feels, putting a 36 year old veteran (who's already struggling with fatigue and being limited to a maximum amount of minutes guarding NBA centers) on a young, fresh elite power forward for those same minutes means KG's fatigue factor is in red alert at the end of a game in crunch time.
We've seen how his lift is affected and how his shot is affected when he's played too many minutes and run his ass off.

You can't just put Gortat on Ibaka or Bosh, or Amare.
They will all get their jumpshot off easily or fake and drive and burn Gortat.
KG MUST take these guys in a match up.
If Josh Smith is there instead of Gortat, KG can guard the center and Josh Smith can guard the elite power forwards.

Here's another example on defense:
If you put KG on Ibaka KG has to go and honor that 15 foot jumpshot, same with Chris Bosh.
Teams with a prevalent jumpshooting big will target the player that KG is guarding and try to take him away from the basket so they can get to the paint easier.
ie: 1) OKC last night when Durant continually attacked the rim and KG came over to help.
2) Miami vs Boston in the ECF last season when Lebron would drive and kick to Bosh in the corner repeatedly leaving KG in no mans land.

People are overrating Gortat's ability to protect the basket on defense.
I think people are underrating Smiths ability to protect the basket and I believe he'd be much better on defense than Gortat.
 With Smith on this team we are a much stronger defensive team and his ability to both post up and attack the rim from the perimeter means we can stretch the floor or run a pick and roll OR run and and gun with Rondo up and down the floor.

But I'll repeat, it's not just as easy as saying 'ok let's just put KG on the opposing teams center and let Gortat guard the power forward, problem solved'.

Having Smith in their completely changes KG's work rate on defense and how effective KG is particularly late in games because of the role he is forced to play as the power forward. It's part of the reason Doc moved KG to center in the first place- to add longevity to his career.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Danny is going after Josh Smith before he goes after Gortat. Here's why....
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2012, 06:35:20 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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If your intent is to get past the Heat, Josh Smith is the choice.  If you're looking to get past the Lakers or Spurs, Gortat is the man. 

I don't see how the Cs are going to bean a healthy heat team without a major upgrade.  Josh Smith is that upgrade. He would give the Cs four top level defenders at his position in KG, Smith, Rondo and Bradley.  Offensively, if he  promises to not shoot anywhere where he can't easily touch the rim, he could be extremely effective on the other end of Rondo fast breaks and alley oops. 

If I'm the Celtics, I'm offering ATL anyone on their roster save KG, RR, and Pierce for Smith.   

Re: Danny is going after Josh Smith before he goes after Gortat. Here's why....
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2012, 07:07:54 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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If your intent is to get past the Heat, Josh Smith is the choice.  If you're looking to get past the Lakers or Spurs, Gortat is the man. 

I don't see how the Cs are going to bean a healthy heat team without a major upgrade.  Josh Smith is that upgrade. He would give the Cs four top level defenders at his position in KG, Smith, Rondo and Bradley.  Offensively, if he  promises to not shoot anywhere where he can't easily touch the rim, he could be extremely effective on the other end of Rondo fast breaks and alley oops. 

If I'm the Celtics, I'm offering ATL anyone on their roster save KG, RR, and Pierce for Smith.
Agreed. Beat the Heat then worry about the Finals when you get there.  If Ainge lands Smith then sign KMart.