Author Topic: Small Ball Failure  (Read 2572 times)

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2012, 01:23:44 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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No team is going to beat a healthy Heat trying to "small ball" against them. 





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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2012, 01:40:01 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Are people really complaining about KG at center?  ****.

KG has been the best part of our team after Rondo.

The problem is we don't have a backup center.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2012, 02:25:31 PM »

Offline Green Pride

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Small ball nearly gave me and everyone else at the Garden a heart attack tonight. The Celts were up 14 and it was time to rest KG. So what does Doc do? He throws this lineup on the floor -- Rondo, Lee, Pierce, Green and Bass. Are you kidding me? OKC cut the lead from 14 to 6 when this lineup was on the floor, with lots of easy buckets. Doc called timeout and got KG back in. OKC did cut it to three, but KG was the difference in the end, playing great D, grabbing boards, and hitting a key bucket and free throws. There is absolutely no reason Doc had to have that tiny ball lineup on the floor tonight.
This. Regardless of how many true centers are in the league, for our defense and rebounding to work, we need 2 real bigs on the floor. KG and Bass, Wilcox and Bass, Wilcox and Sullinger, KG and Sullinger. When we go to Green or Pierce at the 4, we just get sliced going to the basket, and killed on the boards. The plus/minus numbers support what's obvious with our own eyes:
Garnett and Wilcox are each + 11.5, and Green is -6.

This has always been Doc's flaw as a coach -- he can only see the potential of small ball, some kind of mythical team that is flying in transition -- whereas he can't see the reality of C's small ball -- destroyed on defense, and unable to rebound period. Scottie Pippen is not walking through that door!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 02:37:50 PM by Green Pride »

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2012, 03:05:34 PM »

Offline blink

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I agree with this comment.  I think KG has been awesome at center.  I think we need a better BACK-UP center.  That is why the Gortat rumors don't make much sense to me.  I can't see us bringing him in at the money he makes to be a back-up to KG.

At this point in his career, I don't see KG being as effective if he plays PF.  KG is a mismatch for us against most centers.  Gortat isn't quick enough to guard the LJ's or other quick PF's if they cross match on D.

I would still love to get Gortat, he is a good tough player, and would fit in with the C's.  I just don't see shipping out AB (who would help with the dribble penetration issues) for Gortat. 

Are people really complaining about KG at center?  ****.

KG has been the best part of our team after Rondo.

The problem is we don't have a backup center.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2012, 03:22:29 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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With KG at C and he is great at C, we routinely get beat inside lately.   I think we need either a C to push KG to 4 or a starting 4.    Doing so would help against the dribble penetration and help us on the boards.   

Gortat would be a slight improvement over say Perk in terms of rebounds and blocks and scoring.  Statistically he beat's Perk in these areas even healthy Perk of a few years ago.

I don't want to sell the farm for Gortat.   I think Bass is servicable but better suited off the bench.   I would like to see us start Wilcox and KG but it has not happened.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2012, 03:45:07 PM »

Offline cman88

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changing Garnett to center is partially what saved our season last year...at this point in his career he is a Center...just like Tim duncan is.


Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2012, 03:54:38 PM »

Offline Who

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With KG at center, Boston becomes a finesse team. They win defensively with quickness. Not power. With guys like Avery Bradley and with forwards like a Josh Smith.

They don't play defense in the same way as they did when Perk was here (power based defense). They do it differently and they can still be an excellent defensive team. It's just a different sort of defensive system.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2012, 04:09:12 PM »

Offline cman88

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With KG at center, Boston becomes a finesse team. They win defensively with quickness. Not power. With guys like Avery Bradley and with forwards like a Josh Smith.

They don't play defense in the same way as they did when Perk was here (power based defense). They do it differently and they can still be an excellent defensive team. It's just a different sort of defensive system.

ya, we were a top defensive team last year with Garnett at center....where it really benefits us is offensively where Garnett has more speed/quickness than most centers out there.

I think it also plays into the change in the nba as well...there arent many "big" teams out there where KG at center is a liability....teams are smaller/more athletic

even teams like the Chicago bulls with a stable of bigs, You would say that Noah is undersized

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2012, 05:00:15 PM »

Offline Professor of Rondology

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We never would've won in 08 without the Rondo-Ray-Pierce-Posey-KG lineup, so don't tell me you can't use small ball unless you have LBJ.

Doc is overusing small ball now so that he can work the kinks out, because having a small lineup (like the one we used effectively in the 08 playoffs) will be extremely useful in the playoffs.

Gortat would be a slight improvement over say Perk in terms of rebounds and blocks and scoring.
Gortat has range on his jumper and is a serious threat rolling to the hoop.  He's much more than a slight improvement offensively- there is no comparison between the two on that side of the ball. 
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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2012, 06:49:35 PM »

Offline billysan

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Two points.

Gortat and KG starting would work out just fine. When KG goes to the bench for Bass or Sullinger we still have a legit big. When KG comes back then Gortat sits and we still have a legit big who can play interior defense, block shots and rebound.

Perimeter defense has been our achilles this season next to rebounding. Last year we had Pietrus, Bradley and this year we have Jet, Lee. Pairing them with Rondo, Pierce/Green hasnt given us the ability to play small ball. When Bradley comes back we should improve some but probably noy enough IMHO.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2012, 06:55:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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We can only play the style of ball that the players Danny Ainge gathers allows us to play.

Ainge has gathered a group of rotational players that are undersized and outside shooters. Except for Garnett there is no size in the rotation. There isn't a great rebounder in the rotation. There is one PG in the rotation, 4 SGs, 2 SF, 2 undersized PFs and 2 regular sized PFs and no centers.

Complain about small ball all you want but what choice does Doc have given where the quality of talent is in the roster.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 06:59:17 PM »

Online Fafnir

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we[re not playing small ball. the entire league is small playing a power forward at center.
Really?

Tyson Chandler
Brook Lopez
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bynum
Monroe
Hibbert
Noah
Marc Gasol
Nene
Dalembert
If Nene, Noah, Monroe, and Bargs are true Cs then KG is a true center.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 07:00:31 PM »

Online Fafnir

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SA isn't small.  Memphis has a true Center in Gasol.  NYC isn't small.  MIA C is small .  OKC C is 6'10", that is not small BTW.  Get the pattern, not to mention LA.

Thanks for proving my point Lightspeed,  not all contenders are small.
New York is small, they're playing Melo entirely at PF. Essentially the same lineup that Miami is using, except JR Smith is smaller than Battier even.

Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 07:11:24 PM »

Offline billysan

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No team is going to beat a healthy Heat trying to "small ball" against them. 





I think it is do-able if the team has an elite level wing defender that can harass Lebron sufficiently. Trouble is, Bruce Bowen and James Posey have retired and Metta World Peace is not that guy anymore. Only Tony Allen comes to mind as a possibility now and he is too small to deal with a post up game.
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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2012, 07:14:36 PM »

Online Fafnir

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No team is going to beat a healthy Heat trying to "small ball" against them. 





I think it is do-able if the team has an elite level wing defender that can harass Lebron sufficiently. Trouble is, Bruce Bowen and James Posey have retired and Metta World Peace is not that guy anymore. Only Tony Allen comes to mind as a possibility now and he is too small to deal with a post up game.
Honestly I'm trying to think who can defend LeBron best in the league.

Pierce and Gerald Wallace come to mind. I'm trying to think of other candidates. Maybe Carmelo if he's engaged during the entire game, but that's not usually how he plays.

 

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