Author Topic: Small Ball Failure  (Read 2264 times)

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Offline lightspeed5

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2012, 08:01:47 PM »
demarcus cousins is the best center in the game.... look at his numbers

look at his numbers 18.1 / 11 /1.6/1.5/1.2

Offline billysan

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 08:08:05 PM »
The real point is, if you play small ball you must do two things consistently better than the other team. First you must have all five players running the floor. If you get a couple guys who dont run well then you dont get back on defense and get set up. Second you must rebound at least as well or better than your opponent. Rebounding is what gets you out on the break.

We do neither consistently well.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Offline lightspeed5

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2012, 08:10:42 PM »
we[re not playing small ball. the entire league is small playing a power forward at center.

Offline Change

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2012, 08:21:30 PM »
Quote
95% of contenders  play a pf at center. the whole league is playing what you call "small ball"

That being said their bigs are bigger than our bigs or they are more athletic and younger.  When we play small ball we have a smallish 6'9" that isn't athletic and it makes problems even worse.   It is one thing is a smaller guy can compensate for his smallness with athletic ability and another if he can't.
we play a 6'9 guy because he is much more talented and plays better basketball than the 7 footer we have who averages 0.8 pts per game in his career.

what dont you get, its not all about height and size. doc plays our most talented players the most. thats a good choice.

As a coach,somtimes you play less talented players because of pure size.
not in the new speed nba

You can't replicate Miami Heat formula with Jeff Green as your small ball power forward. This league has and will always be big man dominant league. Every now and then Lebron James, Michael Jordan come along to make exception to the the rule winning without a dominant big man. They did however have solid bigs who excelled in their roles.

Championship winning big men last decade- Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'neal, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, David Robinson, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Alonzo Mourning, Tyson Chandler, Chris Bosh...

edit: Dwight Howard is knocking on the door. He is next unfortunately.  :'(

Offline billysan

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2012, 05:44:45 PM »
we[re not playing small ball. the entire league is small playing a power forward at center.
Really?

Tyson Chandler
Brook Lopez
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bynum
Monroe
Hibbert
Noah
Marc Gasol
Nene
Dalembert


I think I will stop there.

Which of these are not true centers? Come on, you know I can go on through the league and keep naming them. Only the Heat and I will give you the Hawks in the East play power forwards as starting centers. Granted Nene amd Bynum are out but they would be starting if not hurt.

Small ball is when you take out one of your bigs, usually the center and replace with an athletic forward that can play multiple positions. (Boris Diaw or Shawn Marion come to mind).

Our problem with small ball is that we play undersized and less than athletic bigs in our small ball lineup. Bass and Sullinger for example. Our best small ball bigs are WIlcox and Green but Jeff is not a true PF. Wilcox is unable to compensate for his (Greens)shortcomings as a PF. Only KG can do that on our roster.

The best guys IMHO for the bigman slot small ball lineup in the league currently are Lebron, Josh Smith, Thaddeus Young, Tayshawn Prince and Luol Deng.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Offline alajet

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2012, 06:01:10 PM »
Quote
95% of contenders  play a pf at center. the whole league is playing what you call "small ball"

That being said their bigs are bigger than our bigs or they are more athletic and younger.  When we play small ball we have a smallish 6'9" that isn't athletic and it makes problems even worse.   It is one thing is a smaller guy can compensate for his smallness with athletic ability and another if he can't.
we play a 6'9 guy because he is much more talented and plays better basketball than the 7 footer we have who averages 0.8 pts per game in his career.

what dont you get, its not all about height and size. doc plays our most talented players the most. thats a good choice.

As a coach,somtimes you play less talented players because of pure size.

So, from this perspective, Jason Collins should see the bulk of the bench minutes, I assume.

Offline lightspeed5

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2012, 07:44:13 PM »
we[re not playing small ball. the entire league is small playing a power forward at center.
Really?

Tyson Chandler
Brook Lopez
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bynum
Monroe
Hibbert
Noah
Marc Gasol
Nene
Dalembert


I think I will stop there.

Which of these are not true centers? Come on, you know I can go on through the league and keep naming them. Only the Heat and I will give you the Hawks in the East play power forwards as starting centers. Granted Nene amd Bynum are out but they would be starting if not hurt.

Small ball is when you take out one of your bigs, usually the center and replace with an athletic forward that can play multiple positions. (Boris Diaw or Shawn Marion come to mind).

Our problem with small ball is that we play undersized and less than athletic bigs in our small ball lineup. Bass and Sullinger for example. Our best small ball bigs are WIlcox and Green but Jeff is not a true PF. Wilcox is unable to compensate for his (Greens)shortcomings as a PF. Only KG can do that on our roster.

The best guys IMHO for the bigman slot small ball lineup in the league currently are Lebron, Josh Smith, Thaddeus Young, Tayshawn Prince and Luol Deng.
**** none of those teams are contenders.

Offline Surferdad

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2012, 08:05:28 PM »
we[re not playing small ball. the entire league is small playing a power forward at center.
Really?

Tyson Chandler
Brook Lopez
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bynum
Monroe
Hibbert
Noah
Marc Gasol
Nene
Dalembert


I think I will stop there.

Which of these are not true centers? Come on, you know I can go on through the league and keep naming them. Only the Heat and I will give you the Hawks in the East play power forwards as starting centers. Granted Nene amd Bynum are out but they would be starting if not hurt.

Small ball is when you take out one of your bigs, usually the center and replace with an athletic forward that can play multiple positions. (Boris Diaw or Shawn Marion come to mind).

Our problem with small ball is that we play undersized and less than athletic bigs in our small ball lineup. Bass and Sullinger for example. Our best small ball bigs are WIlcox and Green but Jeff is not a true PF. Wilcox is unable to compensate for his (Greens)shortcomings as a PF. Only KG can do that on our roster.

The best guys IMHO for the bigman slot small ball lineup in the league currently are Lebron, Josh Smith, Thaddeus Young, Tayshawn Prince and Luol Deng.
**** none of those teams are contenders.
So you're saying having a true big man is actually a disadvantage?  C'mon that's silly

Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2012, 09:12:55 PM »
Why waste time arguing with him, he is wrong and doesn't live in reality.....

Offline lightspeed5

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2012, 09:27:34 PM »
all the contenders are small. look at miami, or okc (perk isnt huge)

Offline vinnie

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2012, 11:11:53 PM »
Small ball nearly gave me and everyone else at the Garden a heart attack tonight. The Celts were up 14 and it was time to rest KG. So what does Doc do? He throws this lineup on the floor -- Rondo, Lee, Pierce, Green and Bass. Are you kidding me? OKC cut the lead from 14 to 6 when this lineup was on the floor, with lots of easy buckets. Doc called timeout and got KG back in. OKC did cut it to three, but KG was the difference in the end, playing great D, grabbing boards, and hitting a key bucket and free throws. There is absolutely no reason Doc had to have that tiny ball lineup on the floor tonight.

Offline jdz101

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2012, 02:12:27 AM »
Not to worry.

Some pansy frenchman with a big nose is the new Celticsblog messiah for 2012/13 and will solve all of our problems.

**Edit** Yes I know Bass cant anchor a defense.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Offline Celtics18

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2012, 05:24:23 AM »
Not to worry.

Some pansy frenchman with a big nose is the new Celticsblog messiah for 2012/13 and will solve all of our problems.

**Edit** Yes I know Bass cant anchor a defense.

Who's the "pansy frenchman"? 
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Kendall Marshall/Dennis Schroeder/Marquis Teague/Ray McCallum
Evan Turner/Roger Mason Jr./Jason Richardson(injured)
Thaddeus Young/Victor Claver/Otto Porter
Spencer Hawes/Darrell Arthur/Erik Murphy
Timofey Mozgov/Lavoy Allen

Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2012, 05:54:16 AM »
SA isn't small.  Memphis has a true Center in Gasol.  NYC isn't small.  MIA C is small .  OKC C is 6'10", that is not small BTW.  Get the pattern, not to mention LA.

Thanks for proving my point Lightspeed,  not all contenders are small.

Offline Surferdad

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Re: Small Ball Failure
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2012, 12:44:17 PM »
SA isn't small.  Memphis has a true Center in Gasol.  NYC isn't small.  MIA C is small .  OKC C is 6'10", that is not small BTW.  Get the pattern, not to mention LA.

Thanks for proving my point Lightspeed,  not all contenders are small.
Beat me to it.  In fact, other than BOS &MIA there are NO contenders that are small.

This notion that the NBA game has changed in recent years to small quicker lineups is really an oversimplification. It is a trend but is no means the rule as far as winning.  Indeed, small centers have always been around: Bill Russell, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld.

 

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