Author Topic: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.  (Read 6083 times)

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Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2012, 11:51:07 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Depends what we got back, such a blanket comment is stupidI would trade Bradley for the right player.   If we could get Howard, James, Wade or Smith I would do it in a heartbeat.

...........No, really, tell me more.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2012, 11:55:27 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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It's only stupid, because he probably has very little trade value.  No sense in trading him if he's not worth anything.  As much as we are hyped up about him... 15 games isn't enough to sell the league on him being a future star.  Doubt we could even land a lotto pick for him.

If some team is as enamored with Bradley as some of the Celtic fans on this board are... then it might be beyond stupid NOT to trade him.  If it means landing a legit star big man, do it.  There is no guarantee that a 6'2 180 pound shooting guard who averaged 7 points and .7 steals is going to be a star in this league.  It's harder to land legit bigs in this league than it is to land undersized shooting guards who can't play point.

Nobody is claiming avery bradleys trade value is high. I couldn't care less how other teams around the league feel about avery. All i can tell you is the team i saw out there before bradley got hurt would have taken down the heat. The team i saw out there was the best team in the league until bradley fell. And u wanna break that up, stupid.

What exactly are you basing this on? The ONE game back in early April when the Celtics beat Miami in Boston where Bradley rejected Wade? Way too small of a sample size.

You're just proving my point. Your memory is clearly short.

Ok, can you please refresh my memory then? For some reason, other than that Miami game and a game vs Orlando last January in Boston when Rondo/Ray Allen were injured and Bradley was all over Jameer Nelson, I am missing the evidence as to how Bradley is the franchise player you're describing.

Every game where bradley started. Apparently you only remember the miami game. I guess you only watch nationally televised games which explains alot. Nobody said anything about him being a franchise player. I said he was elite on the defensive end. Any moron with eyes can see that. Well, almost every moron.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2012, 12:19:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

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It's only stupid, because he probably has very little trade value.  No sense in trading him if he's not worth anything.  As much as we are hyped up about him... 15 games isn't enough to sell the league on him being a future star.  Doubt we could even land a lotto pick for him.

If some team is as enamored with Bradley as some of the Celtic fans on this board are... then it might be beyond stupid NOT to trade him.  If it means landing a legit star big man, do it.  There is no guarantee that a 6'2 180 pound shooting guard who averaged 7 points and .7 steals is going to be a star in this league.  It's harder to land legit bigs in this league than it is to land undersized shooting guards who can't play point.

Nobody is claiming avery bradleys trade value is high. I couldn't care less how other teams around the league feel about avery. All i can tell you is the team i saw out there before bradley got hurt would have taken down the heat. The team i saw out there was the best team in the league until bradley fell. And u wanna break that up, stupid.

What exactly are you basing this on? The ONE game back in early April when the Celtics beat Miami in Boston where Bradley rejected Wade? Way too small of a sample size.

You're just proving my point. Your memory is clearly short.

Ok, can you please refresh my memory then? For some reason, other than that Miami game and a game vs Orlando last January in Boston when Rondo/Ray Allen were injured and Bradley was all over Jameer Nelson, I am missing the evidence as to how Bradley is the franchise player you're describing.

  I don't think he said anything about Bradley being a franchise player. He's probably talking about how well the team played with Bradley in the lineup late in the season and in the playoffs. We were about 12 points a game better in the playoffs with Bradley playing than Ray, those points make a difference in a 7 game series.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2012, 12:23:25 PM »

Offline BballTim

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It's only stupid, because he probably has very little trade value.  No sense in trading him if he's not worth anything.  As much as we are hyped up about him... 15 games isn't enough to sell the league on him being a future star.  Doubt we could even land a lotto pick for him.

  You seem to expect him to be somewhere between a backup and the good scoring, very good shooting and defending sg we saw last spring. I don't see why his being valued at anywhere in that range would surprise you.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2012, 12:26:14 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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It's only stupid, because he probably has very little trade value.  No sense in trading him if he's not worth anything.  As much as we are hyped up about him... 15 games isn't enough to sell the league on him being a future star.  Doubt we could even land a lotto pick for him.

If some team is as enamored with Bradley as some of the Celtic fans on this board are... then it might be beyond stupid NOT to trade him.  If it means landing a legit star big man, do it.  There is no guarantee that a 6'2 180 pound shooting guard who averaged 7 points and .7 steals is going to be a star in this league.  It's harder to land legit bigs in this league than it is to land undersized shooting guards who can't play point.

Nobody is claiming avery bradleys trade value is high. I couldn't care less how other teams around the league feel about avery. All i can tell you is the team i saw out there before bradley got hurt would have taken down the heat. The team i saw out there was the best team in the league until bradley fell. And u wanna break that up, stupid.

What exactly are you basing this on? The ONE game back in early April when the Celtics beat Miami in Boston where Bradley rejected Wade? Way too small of a sample size.

You're just proving my point. Your memory is clearly short.

Ok, can you please refresh my memory then? For some reason, other than that Miami game and a game vs Orlando last January in Boston when Rondo/Ray Allen were injured and Bradley was all over Jameer Nelson, I am missing the evidence as to how Bradley is the franchise player you're describing.

  I don't think he said anything about Bradley being a franchise player. He's probably talking about how well the team played with Bradley in the lineup late in the season and in the playoffs. We were about 12 points a game better in the playoffs with Bradley playing than Ray, those points make a difference in a 7 game series.

Wow, somebody that can actually read and comprehend on these forums!!?  :o TP good sir.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2012, 01:26:24 PM »

Offline soap07

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  I don't think he said anything about Bradley being a franchise player. He's probably talking about how well the team played with Bradley in the lineup late in the season and in the playoffs. We were about 12 points a game better in the playoffs with Bradley playing than Ray, those points make a difference in a 7 game series.

Actually, you know what makes a bigger difference in a 7 game series? One team, which already wasn't particularly deep to begin with - especially in the frontcourt - missing its perennial All Star big man for the majority of the series.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2012, 01:51:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I don't think he said anything about Bradley being a franchise player. He's probably talking about how well the team played with Bradley in the lineup late in the season and in the playoffs. We were about 12 points a game better in the playoffs with Bradley playing than Ray, those points make a difference in a 7 game series.

Actually, you know what makes a bigger difference in a 7 game series? One team, which already wasn't particularly deep to begin with - especially in the frontcourt - missing its perennial All Star big man for the majority of the series.

  Survey says... No. Bradley in the playoffs had about a +15 on/off, Bosh had about a +3.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2012, 02:59:37 PM »

Offline soap07

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  Survey says... No. Bradley in the playoffs had about a +15 on/off, Bosh had about a +3.

So you are under the impression - because of on/off numbers of both players in one playoff run against different teams in entirely different situations - is indicative that Avery Bradley had a bigger impact on the court than Chris Bosh - in spite of the fact that one player has had two seasons in the NBA and less than one quarter of a competent season....and the other player is a top 20 player in the NBA and has been for years.

And that it is complete coincidence that Miami outplayed us thoroughly in the games that Bosh was back fully.

One guy is a legitimate cornerstone of a championship team whose backups were Joel Anthony, Udonis Haslem and Eddy Curry.

The other guy was, at his best, a solid role player and was actually a pretty poor player the majority of his playing time with the Celtics. If Bradley didn't see the court, that just meant more Rondo, Ray, etc. If Bosh didn't see the court, that meant more Anthony/Haslem.

We're going to sit here and seriously pretend that Bradley would've made the difference last year. I just don't get it sometimes.




Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2012, 03:33:05 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  Survey says... No. Bradley in the playoffs had about a +15 on/off, Bosh had about a +3.

So you are under the impression - because of on/off numbers of both players in one playoff run against different teams in entirely different situations - is indicative that Avery Bradley had a bigger impact on the court than Chris Bosh - in spite of the fact that one player has had two seasons in the NBA and less than one quarter of a competent season....and the other player is a top 20 player in the NBA and has been for years.

  Whether Bradley playing had more of an impact on the Celts in the playoffs last year than the impact of whether Bosh playing or not is undeniable. You obviously don't want to accept that because one player has had two seasons in the NBA and less than one quarter of a competent season, but it's true nonetheless. There's a big part of the equation that you're missing, playing Bradley kept (an injured) Ray off the court, and Ray was hurting the Celts.

  It's worth pointing out that (small sample size, about 300 minutes) that the Heat are getting outscored when Ray's on the court. This is happening in spite of Ray being a perennial all-star and future HOFer, fwiw.

And that it is complete coincidence that Miami outplayed us thoroughly in the games that Bosh was back fully.

One guy is a legitimate cornerstone of a championship team whose backups were Joel Anthony, Udonis Haslem and Eddy Curry.

The other guy was, at his best, a solid role player and was actually a pretty poor player the majority of his playing time with the Celtics. If Bradley didn't see the court, that just meant more Rondo, Ray, etc. If Bosh didn't see the court, that meant more Anthony/Haslem.

We're going to sit here and seriously pretend that Bradley would've made the difference last year. I just don't get it sometimes.

  You don't get it because this isn't fantasy basketball and you just can't assume that the better player will have the bigger impact on the game regardless of the circumstances.

  An example of this is Scal in the 09 playoffs. He played his usual self but we would have gotten beat in both series fairly handily without him, because the minutes he played would have gone to Mikki Moore, who was nothing short of disaster. I'd say that, by simply keeping Moore on the bench, Scal had more of an impact on those playoffs than Bosh had for the Heat last year.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 03:39:23 PM by BballTim »

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2012, 03:41:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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It's only stupid, because he probably has very little trade value.  No sense in trading him if he's not worth anything.  As much as we are hyped up about him... 15 games isn't enough to sell the league on him being a future star.  Doubt we could even land a lotto pick for him.

If some team is as enamored with Bradley as some of the Celtic fans on this board are... then it might be beyond stupid NOT to trade him.  If it means landing a legit star big man, do it.  There is no guarantee that a 6'2 180 pound shooting guard who averaged 7 points and .7 steals is going to be a star in this league.  It's harder to land legit bigs in this league than it is to land undersized shooting guards who can't play point.

Nobody is claiming avery bradleys trade value is high. I couldn't care less how other teams around the league feel about avery. All i can tell you is the team i saw out there before bradley got hurt would have taken down the heat. The team i saw out there was the best team in the league until bradley fell. And u wanna break that up, stupid.
I'm sorry, but that comment doesn't make any sense.  Are some of you under the assumption that the idea is to cut Bradley?  Cutting Bradley is different than trading Bradley.  The idea behind trading a player is that you get something of use back.  Nobody is suggesting we trade Bradley for scraps... the idea is that we trade him for a more important piece.  My point is, Bradley doesn't have nearly the same value around the league as some of these rabid Celtic fans seem to have for him.  14ish games, a shooting streak and a legendary game where he limited an injured Dwayne Wade to 20 points isn't enough to sell the rest of the league on his superstardom.  At the end of the day, he's a feisty little undersized shooting guard who plays solid defense, but might pan out to be nothing more than a smaller Tony Allen.  Undersized Tony Allen is still a good piece of the puzzle.   The only reason you trade Bradley is if we can bring in a key big man (Josh Smith or Al Jefferson or something) that we know can contribute and fill our biggest holes.

The attachment to Bradley reminds of how Celtic fans were like, "Trading Gerald Green would be BEYOND STUPID!!!" or "Trading Delonte West would be BEYOND STUPID!!!" or "Trading Al Jefferson would be BEYOND STUPID!!!"... Losing Big Al hurt, but it's all about context.  If we can get something major in return... maybe you do it.  If his value is as insignificant as I imagine... then you clearly don't trade him. 

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2012, 03:50:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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BTW, for whoever just compared Bradley's ho-hum playoffs to Ray's ho-hum playoffs... that's silly.  Ray was dreadful in the playoffs.  He was playing injured... shot 39%, 30% from three and 71% from the line.  Scoring is the only way Ray can contribute and that wasn't the same Ray ALlen who is shooting 51%, 52% from three and 84% from the line for the Heat right now.

Bradley was playing injured too... but I'm sure he was still an upgrade defensively over Ray in the minutes he played.  Probably why even though Bradley shot dreadful in his own right (36%/22%/67%) he might have had a bigger impact than the non-existent Ray Allen.

I think Bradley can be a good piece and I'm excited to see him come back.  I'd be thrilled to see him blossom into a star, but I'm not counting on it.  But at gunpoint... do I take a legit star who I KNOW can contribute right now... or cross my fingers that a 6'2 180 pound shooting guard is going to live up to suddenly crazy expectations?  ... I think I take the star.   My point is, I don't think anyone around the league cares about Bradley enough to give up a star for him.  Could be wrong, but I doubt a team like Atlanta is salivating for a super hyped munchkin who averaged 7 points and .7 steals last year.... probably not enough to give up a bluechip talent like Josh Smith.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2012, 04:04:43 PM »

Offline BballTim

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BTW, for whoever just compared Bradley's ho-hum playoffs to Ray's ho-hum playoffs... that's silly.  Ray was dreadful in the playoffs.

  Haha. After all of your claims that KG's +/- numbers (compared to how the team does when he's replaced by dreadful players) point to his great play, you're calling this silly? Oh, the irony...

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2012, 04:12:28 PM »

Offline BballTim

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 Nobody is suggesting we trade Bradley for scraps... the idea is that we trade him for a more important piece.  My point is, Bradley doesn't have nearly the same value around the league as some of these rabid Celtic fans seem to have for him.  14ish games, a shooting streak and a legendary game where he limited an injured Dwayne Wade to 20 points isn't enough to sell the rest of the league on his superstardom.


  Obviously you have no idea how much Danny or any other team in the league values Bradley. You might not have any idea whether his play last year was indicative of how well he'll play in the future but that doesn't mean nba gms don't have an opinion on it.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2012, 04:12:37 PM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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No thanks on trading Bradley. It would be premature.

Re: Trading Bradley Would Be Beyond Stupid.
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2012, 04:53:00 PM »

Offline soap07

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Whether Bradley playing had more of an impact on the Celts in the playoffs last year than the impact of whether Bosh playing or not is undeniable.

It's actually quite deniable. One is simply the much better player. On/off stats are incredibly misleading - especially when cherry picking from a small sample size.

Quote
  You don't get it because this isn't fantasy basketball and you just can't assume that the better player will have the bigger impact on the game regardless of the circumstances.

You're right, I don't assume that. I do assume when a better player by far has back ups who wouldn't even crack the Celtics rotation is out for a majority of a series - and that better player is a franchise cornerstone - while the player he's being compared to is a role player with a deeper team around him - that Player A has the much bigger impact.

Quote
  An example of this is Scal in the 09 playoffs. He played his usual self but we would have gotten beat in both series fairly handily without him, because the minutes he played would have gone to Mikki Moore, who was nothing short of disaster. I'd say that, by simply keeping Moore on the bench, Scal had more of an impact on those playoffs than Bosh had for the Heat last year.


You do understand who was getting Bosh's minutes while he was out? On an already thin team? Joel Anthony. Udonis Haslem. Dexter Pittman. You understand that right? The gap between Bosh and Joel Anthony/whoever else they were throwing out there is so much larger than the gap between Bradley and Rondo that I actually can't believe I have to explain this.