Author Topic: Moves and JAG's  (Read 907 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Moves and JAG's
« on: November 21, 2012, 12:43:22 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
  • Tommy Points: 134
I remember Bill Parcell's used to refer to some players as JAG's, as in, Just Another Guy.  The context was that you don't worry about those guys because they are easily replaceable.  You lose one, you pick up another.

Albeit, basketball is somewhat different that football, but the basic principle is the same.  The biggest problem with this team is that we have a bunch of JAG's.  Get past Rondo, KG, and PP, then everyone else is just a guy.  Not terrible players but not really difference makers either. 

Now maybe Avery changes things when he comes back.  I sure hope so.  But in the meantime, I don't really see how picking guys like Martin, Birdman, etc. really makes much of a dent.  These guys are comparable to guys already on the roster.  Not all can play and decisions might be difficult for Doc.  Chemistry could come into play as well.

So really, the only deals worth making are those that bring someone who is considerably better or adds something we don't have.  Of course, to get that guy, we'll likely have to give up a difference maker like Avery.  But if we could get back size and rebounding (things we really lack), it would not be crazy to consider it.

Some people might scoff at the idea but hey, you gotta give up something to get something.  Of course, we can just stay the course and see what happens when Avery comes back.  If he can pick up the slack, then sorry Courtney (or even Terry), but somebody's got to sit down. 

Bottom line:  picking up another JAG is just an exercise in spinning our wheels.

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 12:48:13 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8409
  • Tommy Points: 144
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.

“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 12:56:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
  • Tommy Points: 134
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.
I agree to an extent.  But there are obviously different ways to form a roster.  When you have superstars, then JAGS may be all you need.  But when you don't have them, then JAG's aren't going to do it.  You need to try to trade in quantity for more quality.  Or quality in an area of surplus for quality in an area of need.

In terms of Terry and Bass, they are legitimate NBA rotation players.  But I have never thought of Bass as a starter on a championship team.  He has severe limitations; doesn't rebound, is small, and can't get his own shot.  I'd call him a JAG.

And Terry has been very underwhelming this year.  Maybe it's chemistry, but that could be a temporary issue or a long term one.  Perhaps he simply does not fit with our roster?  Or, perhaps he simply is getting old?  Either way, he is a JAG for now.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 01:04:19 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 01:02:53 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8409
  • Tommy Points: 144
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.
I agree to an extent.  But there are obviously different ways to form a roster.  When you have superstars, then JAGS may be all you need.  But when you don't have them, then JAG's aren't going to do it.  You need to try to trade in quantity for more quality.  Or quality in an area of surplus for quality in an area of need.

In terms of Terry and Bass, they are legitimate NBA rotation players.  But I have never thought of Bass as a starter on a championship team.  He has severe limitations; doesn't rebound, is small, and can't get his own shot.  I'd call him a JAG.

And Terry has been very underwhelming this year.  Maybe it's chemistry, but that could be a temporary solution or a long term one.  Perhaps he simply does not fit with our roster?  Or, perhaps he simply is getting old?  Either way, he is a JAG for now.

I don't think Jason has been bad at all the last 5 or so games. He dropped 20 on toronto, 13 on the nets, and 13 on .50% shooting in chicago.

His last game was atrocious, but then so was everyones. I've seen some pretty good improvement over the start of the year these last few games
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 01:52:30 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8880
  • Tommy Points: 1153
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.
I agree to an extent.  But there are obviously different ways to form a roster.  When you have superstars, then JAGS may be all you need.  But when you don't have them, then JAG's aren't going to do it.  You need to try to trade in quantity for more quality.  Or quality in an area of surplus for quality in an area of need.

In terms of Terry and Bass, they are legitimate NBA rotation players.  But I have never thought of Bass as a starter on a championship team.  He has severe limitations; doesn't rebound, is small, and can't get his own shot.  I'd call him a JAG.

And Terry has been very underwhelming this year.  Maybe it's chemistry, but that could be a temporary issue or a long term one.  Perhaps he simply does not fit with our roster?  Or, perhaps he simply is getting old?  Either way, he is a JAG for now.

We have superstars.  Three of them, to be exact.  And, we have some pretty decent JAGs to go along with them.
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Dennis Schroeder/Ray McCallum
Tyreke Evans/Jeremy Lamb/R. Ledo
Giannis Antetokounpo/Darrell Arthur/V. Claver
Kelly Olynyk/Nerlens Noel/C. Jefferson
Timofey Mozgov/B. Wright/A. Nicholson

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 02:34:59 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
  • Tommy Points: 134
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.
I agree to an extent.  But there are obviously different ways to form a roster.  When you have superstars, then JAGS may be all you need.  But when you don't have them, then JAG's aren't going to do it.  You need to try to trade in quantity for more quality.  Or quality in an area of surplus for quality in an area of need.

In terms of Terry and Bass, they are legitimate NBA rotation players.  But I have never thought of Bass as a starter on a championship team.  He has severe limitations; doesn't rebound, is small, and can't get his own shot.  I'd call him a JAG.

And Terry has been very underwhelming this year.  Maybe it's chemistry, but that could be a temporary issue or a long term one.  Perhaps he simply does not fit with our roster?  Or, perhaps he simply is getting old?  Either way, he is a JAG for now.

We have superstars.  Three of them, to be exact.  And, we have some pretty decent JAGs to go along with them.
I would argue that there are 5-7 true superstars (that can carry a franchise) in the NBA (james, howard, durant, paul, kobe, rose).  Some might argue that the Celts have no true superstars.

Either way, Rondo is the only one in the discussion.  PP and KG, not anymore.

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 03:00:21 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8880
  • Tommy Points: 1153
I think alot of other teams would be estatic to have Jason Terry, Brandon Bass rosters. The first two are defintly not "Jags"

and the problem with this theory is, outside of Miami, LA, and poosably OKC, which teams have more than two non "jags" under this standard?

HEck, I would argue alot of teams in the league would take Jeff Green (not for 8 million per, but they would certainly pay him more than just another guy)

Its basketball. Most teams are lucky to have more than 1 or at the best 2 "go to" guys.
I agree to an extent.  But there are obviously different ways to form a roster.  When you have superstars, then JAGS may be all you need.  But when you don't have them, then JAG's aren't going to do it.  You need to try to trade in quantity for more quality.  Or quality in an area of surplus for quality in an area of need.

In terms of Terry and Bass, they are legitimate NBA rotation players.  But I have never thought of Bass as a starter on a championship team.  He has severe limitations; doesn't rebound, is small, and can't get his own shot.  I'd call him a JAG.

And Terry has been very underwhelming this year.  Maybe it's chemistry, but that could be a temporary issue or a long term one.  Perhaps he simply does not fit with our roster?  Or, perhaps he simply is getting old?  Either way, he is a JAG for now.

We have superstars.  Three of them, to be exact.  And, we have some pretty decent JAGs to go along with them.
I would argue that there are 5-7 true superstars (that can carry a franchise) in the NBA (james, howard, durant, paul, kobe, rose).  Some might argue that the Celts have no true superstars.

Either way, Rondo is the only one in the discussion.  PP and KG, not anymore.

Regardless of what your definition of superstar is, those three are clearly all well, well above the level of "JAGS."  If we want to contend, they need to play as close to superstar level as possible.  This has, of course, always been the case.

The nice thing is that (on paper, anyway) we have the best supporting cast around these guys that we've had in a long time.  People are doing a lot of complaining about our "other" guys lately, but the likes of Jason Terry,  Jeff Green, Chris Wilcox, Brandon Bass, etc. are going to help us win a lot of games this year and have some big moments. 

We haven't gotten off to a very good start, but I still believe that once this team lives up to its potential (and, I think they will), this team will be right in the hunt.
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Dennis Schroeder/Ray McCallum
Tyreke Evans/Jeremy Lamb/R. Ledo
Giannis Antetokounpo/Darrell Arthur/V. Claver
Kelly Olynyk/Nerlens Noel/C. Jefferson
Timofey Mozgov/B. Wright/A. Nicholson

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 06:00:06 PM »

Offline chambers

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3809
  • Tommy Points: 457
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
There are All Stars, and then there are superstars.
Rondo is the only superstar we have.
Kevin Garnett is a defensive superstar and probably slightly below offensive superstar. His offense is definitely underrated though.

We need at least another all star.
I agree that Bass is a JAG. Our system makes him look good-just like it made Perk look good.

We gotta get past Brooklyn, New York, Pacers, Bulls and then Miami- and that's not even counting Philly or Atlanta who will be tough as well as we know from last year.
Gulp.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 07:16:53 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3174
  • Tommy Points: 165
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
Since the championship season of 1986, my rule-of-thumb is 1-3-8.

You need ONE superstar
You need THREE all-stars
You need EIGHT players who could start on a typical NBA team

The EIGHT comprise your playoff rotation and I suppose they could be considered JAGs.

This was the formula that worked in 2007-8 with Pierce as the superstar.  Is the current roster configured as 1-3-8?  I'm not sure.

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 10:57:51 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8880
  • Tommy Points: 1153
Since the championship season of 1986, my rule-of-thumb is 1-3-8.

You need ONE superstar
You need THREE all-stars
You need EIGHT players who could start on a typical NBA team

The EIGHT comprise your playoff rotation and I suppose they could be considered JAGs.

This was the formula that worked in 2007-8 with Pierce as the superstar.  Is the current roster configured as 1-3-8?  I'm not sure.

Superstars: Rondo, Garnett

All-Star: Pierce

Starters: Terry, Green, Bradley, Bass, Wilcox

There it is:  2-3-8, even better than 1-3-8
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Dennis Schroeder/Ray McCallum
Tyreke Evans/Jeremy Lamb/R. Ledo
Giannis Antetokounpo/Darrell Arthur/V. Claver
Kelly Olynyk/Nerlens Noel/C. Jefferson
Timofey Mozgov/B. Wright/A. Nicholson

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 11:02:43 PM »

Offline jowwwman

  • Kelly Olynyk
  • Posts: 85
  • Tommy Points: 11
Since the championship season of 1986, my rule-of-thumb is 1-3-8.

You need ONE superstar
You need THREE all-stars
You need EIGHT players who could start on a typical NBA team

The EIGHT comprise your playoff rotation and I suppose they could be considered JAGs.

This was the formula that worked in 2007-8 with Pierce as the superstar.  Is the current roster configured as 1-3-8?  I'm not sure.

Superstars: Rondo, Garnett

All-Star: Pierce

Starters: Terry, Green, Bradley, Bass, Wilcox

There it is:  2-3-8, even better than 1-3-8

Green, Wilcox and Bass are fringe starters in a non playoff team. There's a reason OKC started playing better and having success in the playoffs after trading Green and its NOT because they got Perkins.

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 11:03:54 PM »

Offline rondohondo

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7882
  • Tommy Points: 807
Since the championship season of 1986, my rule-of-thumb is 1-3-8.

You need ONE superstar
You need THREE all-stars
You need EIGHT players who could start on a typical NBA team

The EIGHT comprise your playoff rotation and I suppose they could be considered JAGs.

This was the formula that worked in 2007-8 with Pierce as the superstar.  Is the current roster configured as 1-3-8?  I'm not sure.

Superstars: Rondo, Garnett

All-Star: Pierce

Starters: Terry, Green, Bradley, Bass, Wilcox

There it is:  2-3-8, even better than 1-3-8

more like

superstar: rondo

all-stars: pp, kg

starters: Terry, Bradley

role players: everyone else

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 11:06:38 PM »

Offline vinnie

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8428
  • Tommy Points: 402
Since the championship season of 1986, my rule-of-thumb is 1-3-8.

You need ONE superstar
You need THREE all-stars
You need EIGHT players who could start on a typical NBA team

The EIGHT comprise your playoff rotation and I suppose they could be considered JAGs.

This was the formula that worked in 2007-8 with Pierce as the superstar.  Is the current roster configured as 1-3-8?  I'm not sure.

Superstars: Rondo, Garnett

All-Star: Pierce

Starters: Terry, Green, Bradley, Bass, Wilcox

There it is:  2-3-8, even better than 1-3-8

Garnett is way past being a superstar. Great defensive player, yes, in 4-5 minute spurts. Superstar, not even close.

They have one superstar -- Rondo -- and maybe two all stars in Pierce and Garnett. Terry, Bass and Wilcox especially are not starters on most other teams. Green would start, I guess, for some teams. Seems to me like you are highly overrating the talent on this team.

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 11:26:26 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8880
  • Tommy Points: 1153
Here's my take on KG: During most of last season he didn't play like a superstar, but, then miraculously down the stretch of the regular season and in the playoffs, he played like a superstar again.

Is it ridiculously unrealistic to think he can pull it off again this year?  I dunno, but I'm counting on it (and, I'm also counting on Paul to have a better playoffs than he did last year).

Go ahead.  Call me crazy.
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Dennis Schroeder/Ray McCallum
Tyreke Evans/Jeremy Lamb/R. Ledo
Giannis Antetokounpo/Darrell Arthur/V. Claver
Kelly Olynyk/Nerlens Noel/C. Jefferson
Timofey Mozgov/B. Wright/A. Nicholson

Re: Moves and JAG's
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 10:08:07 AM »

Offline TripleOT

  • Chat Moderator
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1993
  • Tommy Points: 213
When I saw this thread's title, I thought JAG referred to Jeff Green, and that his middle name began with an A.

I'd say move him for anything you can get.  He's Mr. Softie, and is never going to be an impact player for this team.  he needs to play for a small market team with little expectations.   

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Fantasy Draft Topics

    Welcome to CelticsBlog