Author Topic: NBA's all-time starting 5  (Read 16111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2013, 08:53:27 AM »

Offline bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5945
  • Tommy Points: 4586
Magic
Michael
Bird
Russell
Kareem


C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

Glad to see some reasonable heads on this.  Tired of that LeBron bashing.

This is all you need to say: Larry Hughes (LARRY HUGHES) was brought in by management and was billed literally as a "Pippen".

The organization was terribly incompetent.  KG says he wished he came to the Celtics before instead of staying in Minny.  No one likes to waste away.  If we are all going to hold players to this "ring" measurement of success, please, save the criticism of them taking the best opportunities to win.  You don't win without multiple stars (the only exceptions being at times when the league was pretty bad).

Also I don't think it holds weight.  People always say Bird, Magic, and Jordan didn't have to switch teams, while ignoring the fact that Wilt Chamberlain, Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Rick Barry, and countless other "greats" demanded to be traded or left for a better situation in free agency.

But because "Larry and Magic" never did it and were in great situations for their entire career, any other stars are automatically looked down upon for doing it.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2013, 09:29:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33430
  • Tommy Points: 1532
Magic
Michael
Bird
Russell
Kareem


C'mon people, LBJ is not better than Larry Bird. 

This was cemented the moment he had to team up with his rivals to win a ring.  Lebron also benefits greatly from the new hand check rules.  Sure he's a supreme athlete, but will never be the shooter that Larry was.
LBJ playing in the 80's = Dominique Wilkins.
Can we really blame Lebron that Cleveland in his 7 years there couldn't even get him a top 50 player in the league to play with?  To sum up how bad Cleveland's management was, they had Carlos Boozer.  They tried to pull a fast one with the rules and let Carlos Boozer leave.  People want to blame Boozer for that, but that was all on the Cavs management.  That is what Lebron was dealing with.  Lebron also suffers from being just so darn good almost immediately that he made Cleveland too good to have realistic shots at giving him talent in the draft.  The Cavs didn't linger in the lottery for awhile like Durant's Thunder.  The Cavs also didn't pull a Scottie Pippen out of thin air.  The Cavs didn't luck into a top 3 pick the year after Lebron was drafted like the Celtics did (in order to draft McHale).  I mean the Lakers landed Magic Johnson to a team that had a top 5 center of all time. 

Had Lebron James been drafted to a well run organization, he wouldn't have had to leave to win a title.  But the simple reality is the Cavs were a horribly run franchise that made horrid free agent decisions and drafted atrociously bad.  The new owner and management seems to actually be drafting fairly well, but they certainly did not when Lebron was there.

  My feeling was LeBron was always pressuring the team to make big moves to bring in more talent if they wanted to have a chance of him sticking around. He basically used his ability to leave the team to hold the franchise hostage and the results were fairly predictable.

My feeling is that the alternative (quietly waiting while Cleveland fails to get him much help) wouldn't have been all that palatable a solution.  It sure didn't work for KG.
exactly.  Lebron didn't really start making a stink until the 08-09 season (when Cleveland lost to Orlando).  You know his 6th year there and after he had already re-signed the first time.

The problem was quite simply, Cleveland is not a desirable free agent location and Cleveland did a horrible job of drafting so they had very few good players and almost no one that they could trade to bring in a good player.

Everyone loves to pile on Lebron for intentionally teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but some how Shaq+Kobe, Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Bird/Mchale/Parrish/DJ feel more "organic," even though the endgame is identical. It's just the latter three were due to smart management and the first was due to smart players.

Glad to see some reasonable heads on this.  Tired of that LeBron bashing.

This is all you need to say: Larry Hughes (LARRY HUGHES) was brought in by management and was billed literally as a "Pippen".

The organization was terribly incompetent.  KG says he wished he came to the Celtics before instead of staying in Minny.  No one likes to waste away.  If we are all going to hold players to this "ring" measurement of success, please, save the criticism of them taking the best opportunities to win.  You don't win without multiple stars (the only exceptions being at times when the league was pretty bad).

Also I don't think it holds weight.  People always say Bird, Magic, and Jordan didn't have to switch teams, while ignoring the fact that Wilt Chamberlain, Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Rick Barry, and countless other "greats" demanded to be traded or left for a better situation in free agency.

But because "Larry and Magic" never did it and were in great situations for their entire career, any other stars are automatically looked down upon for doing it.
It is also hogwash.  Magic Johnson only left Michigan State because the Lakers had the first pick.  Had the Bulls won the coin flip Magic would have returned to school.

Quote
"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life."

Quote
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

"The next year, I think the first pick belonged to Utah. I could have ended up Utah's Earvin (Magic) Johnson. How does that sound?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2013, 10:17:23 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20738
  • Tommy Points: 2365
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Quote
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

"The next year, I think the first pick belonged to Utah. I could have ended up Utah's Earvin (Magic) Johnson. How does that sound?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic's not remembering things correctly - Utah had the #2 pick in the 1980 draft.  The #1 pick belonged to...the Boston Celtics. 

Of course taking Magic would've meant no McHale/Parish bonanza that year, but I think we'd've gotten by  :)

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2013, 10:55:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33430
  • Tommy Points: 1532
Quote
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

"The next year, I think the first pick belonged to Utah. I could have ended up Utah's Earvin (Magic) Johnson. How does that sound?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic's not remembering things correctly - Utah had the #2 pick in the 1980 draft.  The #1 pick belonged to...the Boston Celtics. 

Of course taking Magic would've meant no McHale/Parish bonanza that year, but I think we'd've gotten by  :)
yeah the article says that, he was going off of memory.  Golden State actually had the #1 pick and took Joe Barry Carroll.  Boston had the 3rd pick (McHale) with Utah being #2 (Darrell Griffith).
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2013, 10:58:44 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20738
  • Tommy Points: 2365
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Quote
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

"The next year, I think the first pick belonged to Utah. I could have ended up Utah's Earvin (Magic) Johnson. How does that sound?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic's not remembering things correctly - Utah had the #2 pick in the 1980 draft.  The #1 pick belonged to...the Boston Celtics. 

Of course taking Magic would've meant no McHale/Parish bonanza that year, but I think we'd've gotten by  :)
yeah the article says that, he was going off of memory.  Golden State actually had the #1 pick and took Joe Barry Carroll.  Boston had the 3rd pick (McHale) with Utah being #2 (Darrell Griffith).

We traded the #1 to GS for the #3 and Parish.  If Magic had stayed in school another year he'd've been ours for the taking.

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2013, 11:28:17 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33430
  • Tommy Points: 1532
Quote
"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

"The next year, I think the first pick belonged to Utah. I could have ended up Utah's Earvin (Magic) Johnson. How does that sound?"

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic's not remembering things correctly - Utah had the #2 pick in the 1980 draft.  The #1 pick belonged to...the Boston Celtics. 

Of course taking Magic would've meant no McHale/Parish bonanza that year, but I think we'd've gotten by  :)
yeah the article says that, he was going off of memory.  Golden State actually had the #1 pick and took Joe Barry Carroll.  Boston had the 3rd pick (McHale) with Utah being #2 (Darrell Griffith).

We traded the #1 to GS for the #3 and Parish.  If Magic had stayed in school another year he'd've been ours for the taking.
true, but I wonder if the trade still would have been made or maybe it ends up differently.  I mean is Boston really better with Magic or with Parish and McHale.  It would have been an interesting situation to be in. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's all-time starting 5
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2013, 12:06:01 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17833
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
Top five all time starting 5.... Not necessarily the best possible all time team would be for me...

PG - Magic Johnson
SG - Michael Jordan
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Tim Duncan, a tough choice here over Malone or kg
C - Wilt Chamberlin

With this team I am not sure if the other teams would even get a rebound.  :)
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva