Author Topic: KG is Still our MVP  (Read 1736 times)

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Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2012, 05:43:34 PM »

Offline mctyson

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The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

...and watch what happens when we add Avery Bradley back into the mix.  Terry and Lee off the bench.  Danny and Doc's plan all along.

This team is nowhere near where it will be in April.  Mark My Words.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 08:27:27 PM »

Offline chambers

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The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

You're right about KG, but we aren't a contender without Rondo playing like Rondo. You need to give him more credit-he's not just a great quarterback, he's our most potent offensive weapon. Think about last years playoffs. KG was amazing. But who was better? KG or Rondo?

Simple answer is that without Rondo or KG, we are toast.

 
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 09:00:34 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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You're right about KG, but we aren't a contender without Rondo playing like Rondo. You need to give him more credit-he's not just a great quarterback, he's our most potent offensive weapon. Think about last years playoffs. KG was amazing. But who was better? KG or Rondo?

Simple answer is that without Rondo or KG, we are toast.

It's difficult to answer, but if I had to I would say KG.  Whenever KG sat on the bench we were getting our butts absolute whipped by anybody who played against us.  If KG wasn't on the team, that would be 48 minutes of butt whipping every night.

While Rondo was on the court we were much worse, but we weren't getting butt whipped as bad as we did when KG sat.

The same is true this season - we almost won the one game we played without Rondo, even with non-natural PG who is new to the team and doesn't know our plays.  Without Rondo our team still shot efficiently - something like 50% from the floor - simply because of all the scorers we now have.

Without KG we can still shoot 50% from the floor but it doesn't help us, because our defense is so bad that the opposition can match us point for point...and yet our defense is too horrible to have a hope at stopping them.

I think KG was more important in the Playoffs because he was the first person to really set the tone.  He had some massive games, and then when he finally did slow down Rondo filled the void with some massive games of his own.  KG was the initial aggressor though - he set the tone with his work ethic, and the entire team followed.

One big thing that seperates the two for me is mentality.  Rondo seems to play hard in spurts, when he feels like it.  Other times he seems like he's running on cruise control.  Many people here have documented Rondo's tendancy to show up for games taht are on the big stage (telecast games, games against big teams, etc) and then fade for the less exciting games.  He has a tendancy also to be wreckless at times in an attempt to be flashy and wow the cameras.

KG is 110% effort every single night.  He doesn't take games off - if he plays bad it's because he played bad, not because he didn't try.  Every night he's out there sweating like a pig and running until he can't run anymore.  How many times have you seem him run in front of everybody on the fast break for a finish?  Chase down another player on the fast break defensively?  Dive to the ground for loose balls?  This guy is 36 years old and plays with the energy and desperation of a 22 year old who's trying to earn a contract. 

All of this might make it sound like I'm anti Rondo but hell no I'm not.  He is right up there in terms of his importance to our team, and I agree that without him we'd have no hope of a title.  I just think that KG is that little bit more important.

Without Rondo we'd never win a title, but without KG I doubt we'd even make the playoffs.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 09:13:39 PM »

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An MVP that can only play 5 minute spurts.

Explains a lot...

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 09:45:59 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive.  You don't get credit for losing... which is why I left that irrelevant bit out.  Still... we wouldn't have squeaked by the lowly 76ers in 7 games had it not been for KG's brilliant play.

we played better against the heat than we did the sixers. we discussed it here ad nauseum. also we outplayed the heat in 4 straight games...2, 3, 4, and 5. Did the sixers do that to us? NOPE.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 09:57:10 PM by Boston Garden Leprechaun »

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 10:57:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

You're right about KG, but we aren't a contender without Rondo playing like Rondo. You need to give him more credit-he's not just a great quarterback, he's our most potent offensive weapon. Think about last years playoffs. KG was amazing. But who was better? KG or Rondo?

Simple answer is that without Rondo or KG, we are toast.
Our most potent offensive weapon is Paul Pierce.  KG is our best player.  Rondo is super good at getting assists.  That streak don't lie.  The man sure can pass to shooters like only a handful of players in this league are capable of.  I'm just saying KG is our MVP even at his advanced age.

Fwiw, I was shocked we recently lost that game with Rondo sitting out.  Historically we have won games when Rondo sat.  Not because Rondo makes us worse... it's just that players like Paul Pierce have a tendency to step up when he's out.  Our scorers still manage to put the ball in the hoop even when it's not Rondo passing to them.   Probably a fluke, though.  It's a small sample size.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 10:58:26 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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An MVP that can only play 5 minute spurts.

Explains a lot...

Only in the regular season because it's not worth the risk.  If we lose KG we lose the season, basically.

There will be certain games that Doc considers important (like those against potential playoff advasaries) in which he'll play KG more minutes because the win means more.  The ones that aren't as meaningful, his minutes will be undertandably limited.

In the Playoffs he'll be up around 35 minutes per game just like last season.

Personally I think we should be limiting Rondo's minutes.  I'd rather see him down around the 35 minute range and certain now above 40.  He's too valuable for us and the more minutes he spends on the court the higher the risk of him getting injured. 

Hopefully the team will start playing better, build some nice leads, and we'll get more opportunities to rest those guys.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 01:06:24 AM »

Offline chambers

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The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

You're right about KG, but we aren't a contender without Rondo playing like Rondo. You need to give him more credit-he's not just a great quarterback, he's our most potent offensive weapon. Think about last years playoffs. KG was amazing. But who was better? KG or Rondo?

Simple answer is that without Rondo or KG, we are toast.
Our most potent offensive weapon is Paul Pierce.  KG is our best player.  Rondo is super good at getting assists.  That streak don't lie.  The man sure can pass to shooters like only a handful of players in this league are capable of.  I'm just saying KG is our MVP even at his advanced age.

Fwiw, I was shocked we recently lost that game with Rondo sitting out.  Historically we have won games when Rondo sat.  Not because Rondo makes us worse... it's just that players like Paul Pierce have a tendency to step up when he's out.  Our scorers still manage to put the ball in the hoop even when it's not Rondo passing to them.   Probably a fluke, though.  It's a small sample size.

Our most potent player on the offensive side of the floor is Rondo, hands down.

Do we get anywhere near 7 games against the Heat without Rondo?
I'd say we agree Rondo is like only 3 or 4 of players in the league that can pass, create and anticipate potential plays better than 99% of the league.

I think you'd agree that KG is one of less than a handful of defensive juggernaughts in the NBA like Dwight Howard and Tyson Chandler.

'You're just saying' that KG is our MVP at his advanced age. The fact is we have two MVP's. We cannot win a championship without Rondo, and we cannot win without Garnett.
So who is more likely to win the MVP of the entire NBA? Rondo or Garnett?
I think we're 100% toast without KG, but we are also 100% toast without Rondo. If you think losing Rondo for the season means that Pierce will step up and take over his offensive production in points and assists, rebounds and somehow pick up the slack that Rondo's defense on opposing guards produced then I don't think you're being realistic, I think you're almost trying to under rate Rondo because you have a personal vendetta about Celtics fans tending to over rate him.
The entire NBA now agrees that Rondo is the MVP of the Celtics, he's been talked about being league MVP.
KG and Rondo are co-MVP's of this team and without either we are royally screwed.


Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 01:58:17 AM »

Online BballTim

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The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

You're right about KG, but we aren't a contender without Rondo playing like Rondo. You need to give him more credit-he's not just a great quarterback, he's our most potent offensive weapon. Think about last years playoffs. KG was amazing. But who was better? KG or Rondo?

Simple answer is that without Rondo or KG, we are toast.
Our most potent offensive weapon is Paul Pierce.  KG is our best player.

  Our most potent offensive weapon is Rondo's passing. And KG isn't our best player. You have a better argument that he's "MVP", but that's based on the defensive abilities of our other bigs. If Perk was still here, or even (a relatively healthy) JO, our defense wouldn't fall apart when KG came out and his "value" would drop considerably.

  Look at the numbers you started the thread with. The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench. That 19 point differential is significantly higher than any of his previous 5 seasons with the team, including a differential of 4 in 07-08. He's obviously not a significantly better defender now than he was then, he's not even as good. The differential is due to the poor defense of the other bigs. That poor defense makes KG more valuable, but it doesn't make him better.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 06:59:29 AM by BballTim »

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 09:50:31 AM »

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If KG is our MVP, its only due to all our other bigs being average at best.  KG is the only big who can even attempt to play decent PnR defense, and Wilcox is the only other big (that actually plays) that offers any semblance of interior presence.

Rondo is our best player, plain and simple.  He's also considered, league wide not just among Celtics' fans, to be a legitimate LEAGUE MVP.

Haters gonna hate.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2012, 10:04:29 AM »

Offline soap07

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Rondo is our best player, plain and simple.  He's also considered, league wide not just among Celtics' fans, to be a legitimate LEAGUE MVP.

I would like to find a person outside of Celtics fans who consider Rondo to be a legitimate league MVP contender.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2012, 10:09:44 AM »

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^^^  turn on your TV

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 10:23:08 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Rondo is our best player, plain and simple.  He's also considered, league wide not just among Celtics' fans, to be a legitimate LEAGUE MVP.

I would like to find a person outside of Celtics fans who consider Rondo to be a legitimate league MVP contender.

How bout the NBA?

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html

ESPN has him 8th on thier list.

“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2012, 10:24:54 AM »

Online BballTim

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Rondo is our best player, plain and simple.  He's also considered, league wide not just among Celtics' fans, to be a legitimate LEAGUE MVP.

I would like to find a person outside of Celtics fans who consider Rondo to be a legitimate league MVP contender.

  I'm sure the number would be higher than the number of people who think that KG would be an MVP candidate, but you're just arguing semantics. How high up in the voting do you have to finish to be a contender? How likely does your finishing there have to be to be considered legitimate? If people think he's a dark horse candidate does that fit the bill?

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2012, 09:51:25 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Lol Those 3 rebounds to Tim Duncan's 15 were mvp like. Yawn.


You're seriously overrating kg in his current state. He cant be effective after playing 5 minutes. Sorry not Mvp

 

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