Author Topic: KG is Still our MVP  (Read 3546 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KG is Still our MVP
« on: November 20, 2012, 02:27:18 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20308
  • Tommy Points: 1831
Quote
The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.



Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 02:37:07 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12402
  • Tommy Points: 845
I was going to post something of this nature around game 7 or 8. I think it was on one of the telecasts where they spoke of Garnetts absurd plus or minus differential being on the court as opposed to not being on the court. It was absolutely ridiculous. Certainly something that should be considered MVP worthy. Hes not even the most talented person on our team, yet, he is by far the Most Valueable piece of our squad and may mean be more valuable to the Celtics team than any other player in the league is to his team.
CB Draft 2016:
PG:Tony Parker/Mo Williams
SG:Alec Burks/Manu Ginobili
SF:Al Farouq-Aminu/Jared Dudley/Tony Snell
PF:Dirk Nowitzki/JaMychal Green
C: Deandre Jordan/Roy Hibbert/Alex Len

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 02:43:47 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8269
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Intensity!!!
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 02:44:18 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20308
  • Tommy Points: 1831
What's also interesting is that even if you look at the stats they are putting up... KG is still our best player.

I mean, if you look at the statistical efficiency, Rondo is actually in the top 10 right now with an EFF of 23... just behind Chris Paul (23.2 despite playing 5 less minutes per game).

KG has an EFF of 17.5, but KG plays about 10 less minutes per game.  If you compare Rondo's EFF per 48 minutes to KG's EFF per 48 minutes... KG is actually ahead of him with 29.87 to Rondo's 28.96.

It's encouraging news, because it means if we can keep KG fresh until the playoffs... he can maybe get a boost in minutes and carry us deep into the playoffs again. 

 

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 02:46:08 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20308
  • Tommy Points: 1831
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive.  You don't get credit for losing... which is why I left that irrelevant bit out.  Still... we wouldn't have squeaked by the lowly 76ers in 7 games had it not been for KG's brilliant play.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 02:56:22 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12402
  • Tommy Points: 845
I hope the 5 minute on 5 minutes off treatment wont distrupt KG from being in shape during the playoffs. Im not worried about it but it could cause some concern.
CB Draft 2016:
PG:Tony Parker/Mo Williams
SG:Alec Burks/Manu Ginobili
SF:Al Farouq-Aminu/Jared Dudley/Tony Snell
PF:Dirk Nowitzki/JaMychal Green
C: Deandre Jordan/Roy Hibbert/Alex Len

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 03:01:22 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Quote
The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

  KG played well in the playoffs but Rondo was our best player and carried us as far as we went. In terms of this year's play, we're clearly better on defense with KG in the game but we seem to be better on offense without him. We get outscored when KG's on the bench, but we get outscored by a wider margin when Rondo's out of the game.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 03:03:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive. 

  Funny, the number of times you proclaimed that they had no chance of winning 3 games against the Heat, I'd think you'd find it to be somewhat more impressive.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 04:04:24 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20308
  • Tommy Points: 1831
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive. 

  Funny, the number of times you proclaimed that they had no chance of winning 3 games against the Heat, I'd think you'd find it to be somewhat more impressive.
KG gave us a chance as long as Bosh wasn't playing.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 04:08:59 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20308
  • Tommy Points: 1831
Quote
The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

  KG played well in the playoffs but Rondo was our best player and carried us as far as we went. In terms of this year's play, we're clearly better on defense with KG in the game but we seem to be better on offense without him. We get outscored when KG's on the bench, but we get outscored by a wider margin when Rondo's out of the game.
Rondo had some big numbers in the playoffs for sure.  He's very important to the success of this team... almost as much as KG and Pierce.  If those two are playing well, it gives you a shot.  If Rondo is playing well... it probably means his teammates are hitting shots.  If Rondo is playing poorly, it probably means his teammates aren't hitting shots.  He's one of the best passers in the league though... he's clearly a key cog in our system.  Our offense is tailored around his skill set.   But it's defense that wins championships and our defense is trash without MVP KG.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 04:41:29 PM »

Offline manl_lui

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6338
  • Tommy Points: 393
of course he is, he's our defensive anchor. Even at his age, he still has an effect on the court defensively and thats a big value to our team more than anything.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 05:14:25 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive. 

  Funny, the number of times you proclaimed that they had no chance of winning 3 games against the Heat, I'd think you'd find it to be somewhat more impressive.
KG gave us a chance as long as Bosh wasn't playing.

  Bosh was out indefinitely when you were predicting the Heat crushing the Celts.

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 05:14:34 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8269
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Intensity!!!
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive.  You don't get credit for losing... which is why I left that irrelevant bit out.  Still... we wouldn't have squeaked by the lowly 76ers in 7 games had it not been for KG's brilliant play.

That series was just a tough matchup. Team sports and basketball more prominently are about match ups.

Igoudala has always been hard on Pierce and when you add his knee into it it made it very difficult for the Captain to be consistent. Avery Bradley was playing tremendous defense on Holiday. He goes down and Rondo has to move over and defend him. Holiday took advantage of that. It forced Ray on a bad ankle to play more and Turner took advantage of that.

Those specific match ups were tough on the squad. KG played so well because he exploited his matchup with Brand when he was in there. Lavoy comes in and he was a better matchup on defense for defending KG. Kg didn't produce at the same rate against Allen.

Matchups are what it's all about. Not seeding. Seeding is so you hopefully have HCA and the better match ups in the first round. Just look at Atlanta vs Boston in 2008. GS vs Dallas in 2009. SA  and Memphis in 2011. All those one seeds did not match up well with those 8 seeds and the one seed either lost or escaped with a series win.

Remember in 2009 when we took Orlando to 7 without KG? We still matched up well with Orlando other then defending Rashard Lewis. But Cleveland lost to that team in 6 because they didn't match up well. Chances are if we beat Orlando in 2009 that we get swept by Cleveland in the ECF because of the match ups.

We took Miami to 7 because we matched up pretty well with them. We do this year too.

Your too worried about seeding. We have a more talented team this season that just needs to improve its chemistry and continuity. As a result we match up well with most teams. We just need guys to get more acclimated to their roles and be comfortable in those. It might take a little time but it's early.

Come April, May, and June when we can actually game plan against an opponent and analyze their strengths and weaknesses we will be very good.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 05:22:59 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8269
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Intensity!!!
Quote
If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

And taking the Heat to 7 when they were down 3-2.
That's about as impressive as the 8th seed 76ers taking us to 7 in round 2.  In other words, not impressive. 

  Funny, the number of times you proclaimed that they had no chance of winning 3 games against the Heat, I'd think you'd find it to be somewhat more impressive.
KG gave us a chance as long as Bosh wasn't playing.

Meh.. LeBron seemed to defend KG much better then I ever saw Bosh do it. Our defense kept things close and the fact Wade looked like a shell of himself in the first half of games. Still in the second he fed on Ray Allen's defense.

Kg has always played well against Bosh. Bosh didn't do anything in game 6. That was all Lebron. He ripped our hearts from our chest for three quarters. In game 7 the guy hit three 3s and they were at big moments. You wanted him shooting that shot in those moments.

I could argue that Chris Bosh's impact in that series would have been negated by Avery Bradley's impact with his defense, cutting to a hoop with no shot blocker to defend it, and the fact it gave us an extra player to spell Ray and Rondo not named Keyon Dooling.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: KG is Still our MVP
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 05:36:21 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Quote
The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst.
Via Zach Lowe/ESPN

Gotta hand it to KG.  He's still unquestionably the MVP of this team.  We only go as far as KG takes us.  Rondo is great at quarterbacking, but this team isn't a contender without KG playing like KG.  We were below .500 for much of last season until KG flipped a switch sometime in February and carried us on his back to the ECF.  He was a vintage 20 and 10 player and the epicenter of our defense.   The above numbers point to that, but it makes sense... this team is lacking in quality bigs.  We haven't been the same since we traded Perk and Shaq hobbled off the court.  You can stick a Big Baby, Bass or SUlly next to KG and they might get some stats, but we'd be far better off with another strong defensive big giving KG some help. 

If we once again overachieve this year by shocking the Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers in the playoffs... it will mainly be because of Kevin Garnett.

  KG played well in the playoffs but Rondo was our best player and carried us as far as we went. In terms of this year's play, we're clearly better on defense with KG in the game but we seem to be better on offense without him. We get outscored when KG's on the bench, but we get outscored by a wider margin when Rondo's out of the game.
Rondo had some big numbers in the playoffs for sure.  He's very important to the success of this team... almost as much as KG and Pierce.  If those two are playing well, it gives you a shot.  If Rondo is playing well... it probably means his teammates are hitting shots.  If Rondo is playing poorly, it probably means his teammates aren't hitting shots.

  You're almost there. When Rondo plays well his teammates hit shots. Hitting shots is important, and Rondo getting his teammates easier shots is much more valuable than you realize.

He's one of the best passers in the league though... he's clearly a key cog in our system.  Our offense is tailored around his skill set.

  You've claimed that the team was tailored around Rondo's skills when Ray was our starting sg, yet Rondo ran the offense just as effectively when Bradley replaced him. You've claimed that having KG and Bass shooting jumpers was necessary for Rondo to excel, but he does fine with Perk/Shaq/Wilcox on the court. How does a team become tailored to Rondo's skill set? By having bigs that either play on the low post or shoot outside jumpers? By having shooting guards that either specialize in hitting threes or cutting to the basket?

   But it's defense that wins championships and our defense is trash without MVP KG.

  We've been better defensively than 3 of the last 4 champions, obviously there's more to winning the title than you think.