Author Topic: Boston Very Interested in Gortat  (Read 15131 times)

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #225 on: November 23, 2012, 03:41:46 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Haha people are saying don't trade our future star Bradley. That's funny. I'm assuming Sully is another future star that is untouchable.

Man this just reminds me of the KG Jefferson trade. So funny

Who is saying bradley is a star? Only people against bradley are giving him that label. We simply don't wanna give him up especially since im [dang] near positive there is a way to get gortat without doing so. You people act like bradley is a nobody and then turnaround and act like the suns will demand him for gortat. If hes such a nobody then im sure we can keep him without the suns demanding him.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #226 on: November 23, 2012, 04:00:20 PM »

Offline cman88

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no one has said that Bradley is a star...but the stats suggest our defense went to otherworldly levels when Bradley was moved to the starting lineup.

for a team who thus far has been poor with dribble penetration and defense as a whole (with 4/5 of the starting lineup the same)

I think fans recognize what sort of impact bradley can have on the defensive end.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #227 on: November 23, 2012, 05:02:26 PM »

Offline snowball

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no one has said that Bradley is a star...but the stats suggest our defense went to otherworldly levels when Bradley was moved to the starting lineup.

for a team who thus far has been poor with dribble penetration and defense as a whole (with 4/5 of the starting lineup the same)

I think fans recognize what sort of impact bradley can have on the defensive end.

Gortat can have just as much effect on defense.
Plus he can roll with the bigs. And it frees up
KG.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #228 on: November 23, 2012, 05:46:45 PM »

Offline MBunge

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The thing about trading for Gortat is that there's no good reason for Boston's defense to be as bad as it has been.  Plenty of teams have new personnel.  Plenty of teams are missing players.  Neither of those excuse Boston's defensive problems.  If the problem isn't the players but the defensive scheme itself, throwing a 7 footer into the mix won't solve anything.

Mike

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #229 on: November 24, 2012, 08:02:54 AM »

Offline mgent

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I need someone better than Gortat to part with Bradley at this point in time.

Such as?
Someone who is an All-Star caliber player or close to it. Like Josh Smith.

Gortat is an above average starter but not a high level starter (top ten player at respective position).

1)Howard
2)Chandler
3)KG
4)Roy Hibbert
5)Demarcus Cousins
6)Brooke Lopez
7)Bynum(when Healthy)
8)Andrew Bogut(when healthy)not even sure bout that one
9)Big Al
10)Marc Gasol

Gortat would be next IMO so if we cross out Bynum and Bogut because of injuries Gortat is in the top 10.
Except you forgot Nene, Chris Bosh, Anderson Varaejo, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, ....

I'll stop there as thats clearly enough to push Gortat well outside the top ten.
That list isn't accurate.  Noah and Varejao are highly questionable (Gortat is slightly worse defensively and much better offensively), and I'd say he's pretty clearly ahead of guys like Hibbert and Jefferson.

1. Howard
----
2. Chandler
3. KG
4. Horford
5. Gasol
----
6. Bosh
7. Nene
8. Cousins

Those are the only guys that I'd say are clearly better.  Although it's worth noting that 4/8 of them are PFs playing C.  Gortat is a dying breed, and really a rare talent these days.

I'd put Gortat on that 4th tier fighting with but most likely ahead of Varejao, Noah, and Lopez.  Saying he's "WELL outside the top ten" is hardly true.  Bynum and Bogut could both make the 2nd tier but they're never healthy.

Edit:  If he had the help of Boston/Rondo I think he'd rise up the list fairly quickly.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 08:21:40 AM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #230 on: November 24, 2012, 08:13:21 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Haha people are saying don't trade our future star Bradley. That's funny. I'm assuming Sully is another future star that is untouchable.

Man this just reminds me of the KG Jefferson trade. So funny

Comparing Marcin Gortat to KG is ridiculous.  Gortat is a decent center, nothing more.

Giving up AB and Sully to get him would be a steal for PHX.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #231 on: November 24, 2012, 08:31:05 AM »

Offline jdz101

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I need someone better than Gortat to part with Bradley at this point in time.

Such as?
Someone who is an All-Star caliber player or close to it. Like Josh Smith.

Gortat is an above average starter but not a high level starter (top ten player at respective position).

1)Howard
2)Chandler
3)KG
4)Roy Hibbert
5)Demarcus Cousins
6)Brooke Lopez
7)Bynum(when Healthy)
8)Andrew Bogut(when healthy)not even sure bout that one
9)Big Al
10)Marc Gasol

Gortat would be next IMO so if we cross out Bynum and Bogut because of injuries Gortat is in the top 10.
Except you forgot Nene, Chris Bosh, Anderson Varaejo, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, ....

I'll stop there as thats clearly enough to push Gortat well outside the top ten.
That list isn't accurate.  Noah and Varejao are highly questionable (Gortat is slightly worse defensively and much better offensively), and I'd say he's pretty clearly ahead of guys like Hibbert and Jefferson.

1. Howard
----
2. Chandler
3. KG
4. Horford
5. Gasol
----
6. Bosh
7. Nene
8. Cousins

Those are the only guys that I'd say are clearly better.  Although it's worth noting that 4/8 of them are PFs playing C.  Gortat is a dying breed, and really a rare talent these days.

I'd put Gortat on that 4th tier fighting with but most likely ahead of Varejao, Noah, and Lopez.  Saying he's "WELL outside the top ten" is hardly true.  Bynum and Bogut could both make the 2nd tier but they're never healthy.

Edit:  If he had the help of Boston/Rondo I think he'd rise up the list fairly quickly.

All I can gather from this is that you overrate Gortat in a big big way.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #232 on: November 24, 2012, 08:37:17 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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no one has said that Bradley is a star...but the stats suggest our defense went to otherworldly levels when Bradley was moved to the starting lineup.

for a team who thus far has been poor with dribble penetration and defense as a whole (with 4/5 of the starting lineup the same)

I think fans recognize what sort of impact bradley can have on the defensive end.

Gortat can have just as much effect on defense.
Plus he can roll with the bigs. And it frees up
KG.

Gotta give you a TP for this one. Sure Bradley can hound whatever guard he picks up. But our biggest weaknesses on defense (other than chemistry and figuring rotations at the moment) are pick and roll defense, defensive rebounding, and protecting the rim/paint. Gortat fixing those needs in a huge way. The celtics have been a terrible pick and roll defending teams, having gortat being able to defend the pick and roll with KG behind him commanding the D would indeed be just as effective.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #233 on: November 24, 2012, 11:18:18 AM »

Offline mgent

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I need someone better than Gortat to part with Bradley at this point in time.

Such as?
Someone who is an All-Star caliber player or close to it. Like Josh Smith.

Gortat is an above average starter but not a high level starter (top ten player at respective position).

1)Howard
2)Chandler
3)KG
4)Roy Hibbert
5)Demarcus Cousins
6)Brooke Lopez
7)Bynum(when Healthy)
8)Andrew Bogut(when healthy)not even sure bout that one
9)Big Al
10)Marc Gasol

Gortat would be next IMO so if we cross out Bynum and Bogut because of injuries Gortat is in the top 10.
Except you forgot Nene, Chris Bosh, Anderson Varaejo, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, ....

I'll stop there as thats clearly enough to push Gortat well outside the top ten.
That list isn't accurate.  Noah and Varejao are highly questionable (Gortat is slightly worse defensively and much better offensively), and I'd say he's pretty clearly ahead of guys like Hibbert and Jefferson.

1. Howard
----
2. Chandler
3. KG
4. Horford
5. Gasol
----
6. Bosh
7. Nene
8. Cousins

Those are the only guys that I'd say are clearly better.  Although it's worth noting that 4/8 of them are PFs playing C.  Gortat is a dying breed, and really a rare talent these days.

I'd put Gortat on that 4th tier fighting with but most likely ahead of Varejao, Noah, and Lopez.  Saying he's "WELL outside the top ten" is hardly true.  Bynum and Bogut could both make the 2nd tier but they're never healthy.

Edit:  If he had the help of Boston/Rondo I think he'd rise up the list fairly quickly.

All I can gather from this is that you overrate Gortat in a big big way.
What did I say that makes you think that?  I never even said anything about his play.  If anything I'm saying that the league is weak at center right now.  There's plenty of talent, but guys like Jefferson, Lopez, Bargnani don't bring as much to their team just because they can score at will.

The most important ability for centers is to be able to help everybody in the paint on defense and limit the pick and roll.  They also need to be able to control the boards.  In addition to these things Gortat can block lots of shots and is an excellent man to man defender. 

He's one of maybe 10 guys who can do all those things, and half of them are liabilities on offense.  Gortat on the other hand is a very efficient pick and roll guy that shoots 56% every year and can spread out the defense.  He also can't get picked on by bigger guys like a lot of the smaller PF/Cs who aren't true centers. 

He's not elite at any one thing nor is he an all-star talent, but he does a lot of things very well.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #234 on: November 24, 2012, 12:18:18 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Phoenix under the cap, hence not limited to the 125% restriction? As long as the trade doesn't put them over the cap, I think we should be good to go. I think they have about a 1 million wiggle room, so probably we need to get around 6 million worth on contracts.

Can someone confirm?

Also, is Pietrus sign-and-trade a possible play?

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #235 on: November 24, 2012, 12:27:30 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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The thing about trading for Gortat is that there's no good reason for Boston's defense to be as bad as it has been.  Plenty of teams have new personnel.  Plenty of teams are missing players.  Neither of those excuse Boston's defensive problems.  If the problem isn't the players but the defensive scheme itself, throwing a 7 footer into the mix won't solve anything.

Mike

This.

 

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #236 on: November 24, 2012, 12:28:09 PM »

Online Kane3387

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Phoenix under the cap, hence not limited to the 125% restriction? As long as the trade doesn't put them over the cap, I think we should be good to go. I think they have about a 1 million wiggle room, so probably we need to get around 6 million worth on contracts.

Can someone confirm?

Also, is Pietrus sign-and-trade a possible play?

Suns have over six million worth in cap space. Not sure that really helps us bc we have to ship out enough to bring in gortat. But maybe shipping out more money would really help in us safely using the bae to sign a guy like pietrus. Bass, lee, and fab for gortat.

DKC Sacramento Kings
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'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC (DAL swap), MIA

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #237 on: November 24, 2012, 05:37:48 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Phoenix under the cap, hence not limited to the 125% restriction? As long as the trade doesn't put them over the cap, I think we should be good to go. I think they have about a 1 million wiggle room, so probably we need to get around 6 million worth on contracts.

Can someone confirm?

Also, is Pietrus sign-and-trade a possible play?

Suns have over six million worth in cap space. Not sure that really helps us bc we have to ship out enough to bring in gortat. But maybe shipping out more money would really help in us safely using the bae to sign a guy like pietrus. Bass, lee, and fab for gortat.

Again, when a team is under the cap, they're not limited to those restraints, which is why I was asking, this is how "trade exceptions" get created.

Or am I missing something?

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #238 on: November 24, 2012, 05:52:24 PM »

Online Kane3387

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Phoenix under the cap, hence not limited to the 125% restriction? As long as the trade doesn't put them over the cap, I think we should be good to go. I think they have about a 1 million wiggle room, so probably we need to get around 6 million worth on contracts.

Can someone confirm?

Also, is Pietrus sign-and-trade a possible play?

Suns have over six million worth in cap space. Not sure that really helps us bc we have to ship out enough to bring in gortat. But maybe shipping out more money would really help in us safely using the bae to sign a guy like pietrus. Bass, lee, and fab for gortat.

Again, when a team is under the cap, they're not limited to those restraints, which is why I was asking, this is how "trade exceptions" get created.

Or am I missing something?

I was just saying that we were still under the restraint. That's all.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC (DAL swap), MIA

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #239 on: November 24, 2012, 05:52:43 PM »

Offline chambers

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Haha people are saying don't trade our future star Bradley. That's funny. I'm assuming Sully is another future star that is untouchable.

Man this just reminds me of the KG Jefferson trade. So funny

Comparing Marcin Gortat to KG is ridiculous.  Gortat is a decent center, nothing more.

Giving up AB and Sully to get him would be a steal for PHX.

I agree that Bradley is treated like the golden child. Fans tend to cling to guys that have worked their way up and 'struggled' like a rose that grows from the concrete especially since he was drafted here and we've watched him grow.

I do think giving up both Sully and Bradley for Gortat is probably too much.
I think Gortat is much more than a defensive center.
He's durable, has very solid hands and can finish at and around the rim via lobs, put backs and some post moves.

I think Kendrick Perkins is what you call a defensive center. Gortat is one of about 7-8 humans on earth that are that tall, big and strong that have athleticism and can put the ball in the hole and guard the paint reasonably well. I remember when he backed up Dwight in Orlando and did a very good job on both ends, if he ran the pick n roll with Rondo we could get something good from him.

Gortat is like a 1 in a billion type of human. Lebron is 1 in 6 billion type of human.

Avery Bradley? I don't think he's as rare as Gortat.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

 

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