Author Topic: Boston Very Interested in Gortat  (Read 13950 times)

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Offline Rondo2287

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #150 on: November 20, 2012, 12:54:08 PM »
Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.

I feel like you think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not. I disagreed with "The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!"

Jeremy Lin is (was? I don't know what to make of him right now) a young point guard who showed flashes of being an elite scorer and adequate floor general. He doesn't look especially like either of those things right now, but he's only 24, on a new team, and a team that replaced 4 of 5 starters in the past year.

So, I dunno what to make of Lin right now. I think he's a starting caliber player with low-end all-star potential.

Avery Bradley I see a very similar projection, with a higher possible (but not necessarily probable) ceiling.


As I said before, I don't mean that he brings only that but as to comparing him to AB, he doesn't bring anything "different"/more except for those fans.

Lin is  a much better scorer, pick and roll player and decision maker.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #151 on: November 20, 2012, 12:55:23 PM »
Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.

I feel like you think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not. I disagreed with "The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!"

Jeremy Lin is (was? I don't know what to make of him right now) a young point guard who showed flashes of being an elite scorer and adequate floor general. He doesn't look especially like either of those things right now, but he's only 24, on a new team, and a team that replaced 4 of 5 starters in the past year.

So, I dunno what to make of Lin right now. I think he's a starting caliber player with low-end all-star potential.

Avery Bradley I see a very similar projection, with a higher possible (but not necessarily probable) ceiling.


As I said before, I don't mean that he brings only that but as to comparing him to AB, he doesn't bring anything "different"/more except for those fans.

But lets get back to the original point, and that is what kind of value the C's could get for Bradley.  Whether Bradley is a better player than Lin isn't necessarily relevant.  Do you think teams would have been clambering to sign Lin if he wasn't such a draw?  I don't think they would.

GMs are not likely to risk their jobs by trading star level players (which is what it would take to pry Bradley free IMO), for guys who have a very short resume...especially when that resume still shows large holes in their game, that they would have to project whether they will be filled.

Offline CapnDunks

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #152 on: November 20, 2012, 01:00:01 PM »
Asian or no, when was the last time an athlete who wasn't the best at what he did got that type of hype??

Lin was on the cover of Time. When Avery was shining he was playing elite D and getting that block on Wade, hitting 3's.

Lin embarrassed Kobe and Dwill. He dropped 38 on Kobe. Even if he weren't Asian, his story would prompt someone to overpay.

Offline Chris

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #153 on: November 20, 2012, 01:03:55 PM »
Asian or no, when was the last time an athlete who wasn't the best at what he did got that type of hype??

Lin was on the cover of Time. When Avery was shining he was playing elite D and getting that block on Wade, hitting 3's.

Lin embarrassed Kobe and Dwill. He dropped 38 on Kobe. Even if he weren't Asian, his story would prompt someone to overpay.

He also did it on the Knicks, which is the biggest stage in basketball.  It was a perfect hype storm.

But I just am not sure how this is any way relevant to Avery Bradley's trade value.  In addition to the marketing angle, Lin also was not traded, he was signed as a free agent, and his massive contract had as much to do with his restricted status, than his actual value...oh yeah, and he didn't just have surgery on both shoulders.

They just are not comparable situations.

Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2012, 01:04:22 PM »
Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.

I feel like you think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not. I disagreed with "The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!"

Jeremy Lin is (was? I don't know what to make of him right now) a young point guard who showed flashes of being an elite scorer and adequate floor general. He doesn't look especially like either of those things right now, but he's only 24, on a new team, and a team that replaced 4 of 5 starters in the past year.

So, I dunno what to make of Lin right now. I think he's a starting caliber player with low-end all-star potential.

Avery Bradley I see a very similar projection, with a higher possible (but not necessarily probable) ceiling.

As I said before, I don't mean that he brings only that but as to comparing him to AB, he doesn't bring anything "different"/more except for those fans.

Meh, if I had to choose between the two prospects, I'd choose Bradley, but that's because frankly..we gots the Rondo. If you were choosing a guy to be a future cornerstone of your team, I could see why you'd choose Lin. I can see why you'd choose Bradley too. I'd probably choose Lin because he can lead the offense, Bradley needs a lot of help. But there are lots of guys out there who can lead an offense adequately.

I really don't know who I'd choose if I had to pick one to start from scratch with. Either way it would likely be a terrible team. Lin is the safer choice, Bradley is the bolder.

But when you're talking about value, also recognize that Lin's 'value' was monetary, not one of assets. The Rockets didn't trade picks or pieces for him. They traded 7 million a year in cap space.

If you're talking about another team sidling up and giving AB a deal, well maybe they would. Maybe someone would be willing to offer him a max deal. Who knows.

But that's in 2 years. I'm talking today. And today, Bradley is a huge injury risk with a small sample size of success.

That's why I'm saying he won't be traded. Aside from wanting to see what he can bring to the Celtics with more time, I'd want to pump up his value a bit if I were Ainge.

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Offline Brendan

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #155 on: November 20, 2012, 01:09:32 PM »
I feel like AB is over rated simply because the chances that:
1. Last year wasn't a fluke
2. The injuries don't create a major (or permanent) setback
3. He actually capitalizes on what we saw

That being said - you never want to trade a guy who could be a star (which I think is ABs upside.)

But a big man like Gortat is hard to find. And I think a big rotation with KG / Gortat / Wilcox / Sully or Bass - is very very good. Our drop off with KG out is a big pain point.

I also think Gortat has better trade value than AB moving forward.


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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #156 on: November 20, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »
Not sure if I buy the rumor, but I do wonder how a combo of KG and Gortat would work. Or how KG would play offensively against another big who works best in pick and roll situations.

My guess is that since both players have decent to great range, and the fact that Garnett is such a brilliant interior passer that itd end up working quite well.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #157 on: November 20, 2012, 01:30:56 PM »
Not sure if I buy the rumor, but I do wonder how a combo of KG and Gortat would work. Or how KG would play offensively against another big who works best in pick and roll situations.

My guess is that since both players have decent to great range, and the fact that Garnett is such a brilliant interior passer that itd end up working quite well.
Offensively it would work great, as KG is very comfortable playing on the perimeter.

Defensively is my worry about the hypothetical combo.

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #158 on: November 20, 2012, 02:42:35 PM »
Asian or no, when was the last time an athlete who wasn't the best at what he did got that type of hype??

Lin was on the cover of Time. When Avery was shining he was playing elite D and getting that block on Wade, hitting 3's.

Lin embarrassed Kobe and Dwill. He dropped 38 on Kobe. Even if he weren't Asian, his story would prompt someone to overpay.

He also did it on the Knicks, which is the biggest stage in basketball.  It was a perfect hype storm.

But I just am not sure how this is any way relevant to Avery Bradley's trade value.  In addition to the marketing angle, Lin also was not traded, he was signed as a free agent, and his massive contract had as much to do with his restricted status, than his actual value...oh yeah, and he didn't just have surgery on both shoulders.

They just are not comparable situations.

Because I wasn't talking about trade value. I was only talking about whether some gm was willing to take a chance on him, arguing that there are other guys (I just chose Lin as one of many) that gms have taken chances on that are equally as unknown and equally as risky (or injury prone). I don't think Lin is at all far off from a good comparison in those regards. Thank you.
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Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #159 on: November 20, 2012, 02:48:54 PM »
Not sure if I buy the rumor, but I do wonder how a combo of KG and Gortat would work. Or how KG would play offensively against another big who works best in pick and roll situations.

My guess is that since both players have decent to great range, and the fact that Garnett is such a brilliant interior passer that itd end up working quite well.
Offensively it would work great, as KG is very comfortable playing on the perimeter.

Defensively is my worry about the hypothetical combo.

I think Gortat is just what we need defensively. He is a shot blocker, very mobile, and tough... that's all you need to be next to KG!
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Offline Big Rondo

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #160 on: November 20, 2012, 02:55:15 PM »
Any signing that shifts KG back to his natural position is a good signing. Was hoping that was what we were going to get out of Darko/Wilcox/Collins but Doc can't be trusted with rotations so this is the point where Danny needs step up and force his hand.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #161 on: November 20, 2012, 02:58:34 PM »
Asian or no, when was the last time an athlete who wasn't the best at what he did got that type of hype??

Lin was on the cover of Time. When Avery was shining he was playing elite D and getting that block on Wade, hitting 3's.

Lin embarrassed Kobe and Dwill. He dropped 38 on Kobe. Even if he weren't Asian, his story would prompt someone to overpay.

He also did it on the Knicks, which is the biggest stage in basketball.  It was a perfect hype storm.

But I just am not sure how this is any way relevant to Avery Bradley's trade value.  In addition to the marketing angle, Lin also was not traded, he was signed as a free agent, and his massive contract had as much to do with his restricted status, than his actual value...oh yeah, and he didn't just have surgery on both shoulders.

They just are not comparable situations.

Because I wasn't talking about trade value. I was only talking about whether some gm was willing to take a chance on him, arguing that there are other guys (I just chose Lin as one of many) that gms have taken chances on that are equally as unknown and equally as risky (or injury prone). I don't think Lin is at all far off from a good comparison in those regards. Thank you.

I am missing the point then.  Did anyone suggest that no GM would take a chance on Bradley?  This thread is about trading Bradley for a valuable player, not taking a chance on a guy.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #162 on: November 20, 2012, 03:25:18 PM »
gortat is a joke and is not the answer for a championship. gortat will not win you a championship, or even help you.

Offline Chris

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #163 on: November 20, 2012, 03:26:48 PM »
gortat is a joke and is not the answer for a championship. gortat will not win you a championship, or even help you.

Why do you say this?  What is wrong with him?

Offline Eddie20

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #164 on: November 20, 2012, 03:31:16 PM »
gortat is a joke and is not the answer for a championship. gortat will not win you a championship, or even help you.

Why do you say this?  What is wrong with him?

Well, if that's the case then I would love to have this "joke" and his career numbers as a starting center of 14.5 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 55% FG, 1.7 BPG, on 32.1 MPG.

 

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