Author Topic: Boston Very Interested in Gortat  (Read 15287 times)

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #135 on: November 20, 2012, 11:04:52 AM »

Online mkogav

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If Gortat is truly available, I am sure Danny is doing his due diligence. Danny has never been afraid to make a controversial or unpopular trades. I believe if AB is the cost for Gortat and Danny believes Gortat make the team better, he will pay the price.

However, these are the Suns we are talking about. They are not about winning. They are about making $$$ or in this case "saving" money.

Gortat is signed through 2014 at $7.5 million. That's a super reasonable contract. Why would they trade him other than for $$$ savings?

The Cs could offer Lee, Darko, maybe a future pick, and $$$. This would save the Suns about a million (prorated) this season. Darko goes off the books next season, which save them about $2 million. Lee is signed on a reasonable dollars the following two seasons.

Plus if Boston tossed in the max cash allowed, ~$3 million, the Suns come out about +$5.5-6 million.

That's a lot of bottles for Cristal for Sarver.

Mk



Eh, lets not get it twisted.  Sarver is cheap, but he is very much like Jeremy Jacobs.  He will put in just enough money to sell tickets, and then cheap out when it comes to putting in the extra cash needed to get over the top. 

Trading a productive player on a bargain contract for cap savings is not his style.

Like I said before, why would the Suns entertain the idea of trading one of the best player/contracts in the NBA if not for $$$? The situation is much different than the past 8 Nash years when the Suns were truly contenders or in the case of the past few Nash years, pretenders.

Gortat does not provide "Gate", but his true value is being a top trade asset.

Perhaps you are correct, a Lee+$$$ may be too obviously a trade for $$$. Danny would have to get a third team to take Lee in exchange for a shorter term contract and lottery-ish draft pick.

In any event, the Suns have a long history of making deals for savings, selling draft picks (including Rondo's), JJ to the Hawks, Shaq to Cleveland, etc...

I would not expect the Suns to make a deal soon though. It's very early in the season and a lot can change. However, if January rolls around the Suns are basement dwellers then Sarver will have an 'argument' to make changes/rebuild/etc...

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #136 on: November 20, 2012, 11:05:10 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...
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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #137 on: November 20, 2012, 11:14:19 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

Jeremy Lin is way better than you're giving him credit for.

EDIT: But I do think there are comparisons to be made between Lin and Bradley, although trade value and how much a team is willing to pay a guy are not necessarily the same thing.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #138 on: November 20, 2012, 11:17:48 AM »

Offline alajet

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

It helps with marketing that he's semi-Taiwanese. Also, he's a Harvard graduate, and it helps his image, too.
Also, there you go, he has a great success story. Gets cut by teams, plays in D-League, only plays for an injured starting point guard's place and explodes.
He's surrounded by a huge hype because of these reasons.

Avery Bradley, on the other hand, is just Avery Bradley. No Asian heritage. No Harvard history. No ups and downs in his career.
Not to mention Houston GM Morey is a bit of, well, crazy scientist!

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #139 on: November 20, 2012, 11:21:35 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

It helps with marketing that he's semi-Taiwanese. Also, he's a Harvard graduate, and it helps his image, too.
Also, there you go, he has a great success story. Gets cut by teams, plays in D-League, only plays for an injured starting point guard's place and explodes.
He's surrounded by a huge hype because of these reasons.

Avery Bradley, on the other hand, is just Avery Bradley. No Asian heritage. No Harvard history. No ups and downs in his career.
Not to mention Houston GM Morey is a bit of, well, crazy scientist!

I'll give you being Asian but the rest... LOL.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #140 on: November 20, 2012, 11:26:44 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Danny has never been afraid to make a controversial or unpopular trades. I believe if AB is the cost for Gortat and Danny believes Gortat make the team better, he will pay the price.

I think he will consider the long-term and not just the short-term, but if he feels this team has as reasonable a shot as any non-Miami team to make the Finals out of the East, he may consider the effect the Perk trade had on team chemistry in evaluating whether or not a mid-season deal is worth consummating.
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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #141 on: November 20, 2012, 11:28:55 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

Jeremy Lin is way better than you're giving him credit for.

EDIT: But I do think there are comparisons to be made between Lin and Bradley, although trade value and how much a team is willing to pay a guy are not necessarily the same thing.

So he is elite? Oh, I didn't know. I never said he wasn't a good player but he hasn't shown more than AB has. How much more credit do I need to give him? Should I say he is above average? I need more proof, other than the one small sample size (everyone asks that of AB). He is a good player, nothing more as of yet... a dime a dozen.

Also, more of a point... AB is on a rookie contract for about 2 more seasons (I think)... that's great for what AB brings (he doesn't need shoulders to play elite defense as you witnessed last season).
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2012, 11:40:46 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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So he (Jeremy Lin) is elite?

In what context? He's better than any backup PG I can think of. He's likely in that mix with like Goran Dragic, Mike Conley Jr, guys like that.

Quote
I never said he wasn't a good player but he hasn't shown more than AB has. How much more credit do I need to give him? Should I say he is above average? I need more proof, other than the one small sample size (everyone asks that of AB). He is a good player, nothing more as of yet... a dime a dozen.

I'm confused..are you comparing Lin to Bradley, or arguing Bradley is better..or what?

In any case, my 'you need to give him more credit' thing was because you said he wasn't Elite, then you said:

Quote
The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

Which is just plain bogus. He does bring asian fans, but he brings way more to the table than that, both in terms of an established fan demographic and in terms of skill sets.

Quote
Also, more of a point... AB is on a rookie contract for about 2 more seasons (I think)... that's great for what AB brings (he doesn't need shoulders to play elite defense as you witnessed last season).

Well..he does need shoulders to be a starting caliber player. But Avery Bradley is on a good rookie contract, but Lin is only going to hit the Rockets for 7 million per season or something in terms of cap repercussions. He's a better contract than Jeff Green looks like right now.

Ultimately the point I'm making was more that the opinion:

Quote
The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

Doesn't seem to hold much water if you're looking at the actual numbers.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #143 on: November 20, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »

Offline Chris

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

Lin is a very special case.  He wasn't signed to that contract because of his basketball abilities, it was because he is such a marketing draw.  Houston needed to bring back the Asian-American market that had done so well for them with Yao, so they vastly overpaid for Lin. 

Not to mention, Lin's "flash" last year, was much brighter than Bradley's. 

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2012, 12:22:49 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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So we are considering trading our future Dennis Johnson (Avery Bradley) for Rick Robey er the Euro-Silas (Marcin Gortat). Throw in Darko Milicic, Courtney Lee, Sullenger and get back Jared Dudley???

HMMMMMM let me give it further thought and I will get back to you on that one.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2012, 12:27:04 PM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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So he (Jeremy Lin) is elite?

In what context? He's better than any backup PG I can think of. He's likely in that mix with like Goran Dragic, Mike Conley Jr, guys like that.

Quote
I never said he wasn't a good player but he hasn't shown more than AB has. How much more credit do I need to give him? Should I say he is above average? I need more proof, other than the one small sample size (everyone asks that of AB). He is a good player, nothing more as of yet... a dime a dozen.

I'm confused..are you comparing Lin to Bradley, or arguing Bradley is better..or what?

In any case, my 'you need to give him more credit' thing was because you said he wasn't Elite, then you said:

Quote
The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

Which is just plain bogus. He does bring asian fans, but he brings way more to the table than that, both in terms of an established fan demographic and in terms of skill sets.

Quote
Also, more of a point... AB is on a rookie contract for about 2 more seasons (I think)... that's great for what AB brings (he doesn't need shoulders to play elite defense as you witnessed last season).

Well..he does need shoulders to be a starting caliber player. But Avery Bradley is on a good rookie contract, but Lin is only going to hit the Rockets for 7 million per season or something in terms of cap repercussions. He's a better contract than Jeff Green looks like right now.

Ultimately the point I'm making was more that the opinion:

Quote
The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

Doesn't seem to hold much water if you're looking at the actual numbers.


Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2012, 12:33:53 PM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Couldn't read another post after this b/c I had to say two words...

Jeremy Lin.


Okay, a few more words...

Lin is older than AB (24 to 21), had less of a great stretch than AB had, and he is also injury prone (like AB)! AB is an elite defender, he was one every step of the way (even when he sucked on offense), Lin isn't elite at anything. The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!

You saw what they paid Lin...

Lin is a very special case.  He wasn't signed to that contract because of his basketball abilities, it was because he is such a marketing draw.  Houston needed to bring back the Asian-American market that had done so well for them with Yao, so they vastly overpaid for Lin. 

Not to mention, Lin's "flash" last year, was much brighter than Bradley's.

You can use a lot of guys in place of Lin that GMs took a chance on who are getting paid a lot of money. Lin just fits well with the point I was making.

So you agree that Lin was paid that money mainly b/c of the one thing AB can't bring, Asian fans?

My original point that I am not backing away from, GMs aren't going to be scared off of AB because of injuries and because he had one good stretch (although he was always great on defense).


Edit: I never said who had the brighter stretch but that AB's was longer but I am saying now that AB's had more of an impact as far as playing basketball goes. Lin had one of the best stretches ever for a player, AB helped turn a team from bottom feeders to elite and one of the best teams ever on defense (also on offense I think). So, sure technically Lin had the brighter "flash" but not solely b/c of his play.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 12:43:09 PM by ImShakHeIsShaq »
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2012, 12:38:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.

I feel like you think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not. I disagreed with "The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!"

Jeremy Lin is (was? I don't know what to make of him right now) a young point guard who showed flashes of being an elite scorer and adequate floor general. He doesn't look especially like either of those things right now, but he's only 24, on a new team, and a team that replaced 4 of 5 starters in the past year.

So, I dunno what to make of Lin right now. I think he's a starting caliber player with low-end all-star potential.

Avery Bradley I see a very similar projection, with a higher possible (but not necessarily probable) ceiling.

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Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #148 on: November 20, 2012, 12:45:50 PM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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Context matters. I was talking about other than what AB brings. I already said he was good but he isn't elite at anything no matter how you spin it.

AB started last season with two messed up shoulders so...

I'm not arguing that AB is better but that Hous took a chance on Lin who is older, as injury prone, and who had less of a great stretch than AB (AB was always great on defense)... but I am to believe that GMs would be scared off from acquiring AB? There are many other guys I could use in place of Lin.


I'll say it again, what more credit should I give him? Lin isn't being paid backup PG money! He is a good player but hasn't shown anything I would want to pay attention to (I watch Rockets games to see Harden so I do see Lin). Lin is a dime a dozen right now. If Lin was black (or white for that matter), other than that little stretch of games, no one would be paying much attention to him... now why is that? Because, he is a good player but there are plenty others just as good.

Oh and I am not going to argue JG's contract b/c I don't even want to discuss how JG is hurting my feelings right now... hopes are almost completely dashed.

I feel like you think I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm not. I disagreed with "The only thing Lin brings to the table is Chinese fans, that doesn't help with wins or losses!"

Jeremy Lin is (was? I don't know what to make of him right now) a young point guard who showed flashes of being an elite scorer and adequate floor general. He doesn't look especially like either of those things right now, but he's only 24, on a new team, and a team that replaced 4 of 5 starters in the past year.

So, I dunno what to make of Lin right now. I think he's a starting caliber player with low-end all-star potential.

Avery Bradley I see a very similar projection, with a higher possible (but not necessarily probable) ceiling.


As I said before, I don't mean that he brings only that but as to comparing him to AB, he doesn't bring anything "different"/more except for those fans.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #149 on: November 20, 2012, 12:53:57 PM »

Offline syfy9

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I would want Gortat for the sake that he's a big body and can play defense.

KG - Perk
KG - Gortat

With Gortat, you don't have an offensively liability, but a threat. So bonus.
I like Marcus Smart

 

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