Author Topic: Boston Very Interested in Gortat  (Read 41012 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2012, 12:23:51 AM »

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

  • Kristaps Porzingis
  • Posts: 189
  • Tommy Points: 21
the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2012, 12:25:43 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42583
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Bradley is untouchable IMO.

You're a smart man and don't let anyone tell you differently sir.
TP to the guy who said it and you for agreeing.

I also agree, but for different reasons. Aside from Pierce, Rondo, and KG, I'm not against trading anyone, but Bradley's stock is pretty low right now. I'd rather let him remind the league just how good he is before we entertain real offers for him.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2012, 01:16:33 AM »

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3171
  • Tommy Points: 404
Give me Paul Millsap over this guy any day of the week, month, or year.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2012, 03:18:46 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

That's very funny. In fact he's the most likely player traded on our roster this season because he is at 110% of his peak value.
Has a huge buzz about being a great player and top level defender, yet simply doesn't have the size to be an elite shooting guard in the NBA. Most likely a poor man's Monta Ellis that can defend, and we probably aren't going to win many championships with Rondo at the helm if we have him as our starting shooting guard.
Trade him while he's hot. Who even knows what his shoulder situation is going to be like. Remember what happened to Perkins after knee surgery?

Pretty much any big trade we make will involve Bradley and if you think that Doc and Danny won't move him in a deal that lands us Josh Smith, Verajao or Gasol you're kidding yourself.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2012, 06:10:59 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

That's very funny. In fact he's the most likely player traded on our roster this season because he is at 110% of his peak value.
Has a huge buzz about being a great player and top level defender, yet simply doesn't have the size to be an elite shooting guard in the NBA. Most likely a poor man's Monta Ellis that can defend, and we probably aren't going to win many championships with Rondo at the helm if we have him as our starting shooting guard.
Trade him while he's hot. Who even knows what his shoulder situation is going to be like. Remember what happened to Perkins after knee surgery?

Pretty much any big trade we make will involve Bradley and if you think that Doc and Danny won't move him in a deal that lands us Josh Smith, Verajao or Gasol you're kidding yourself.

Gotta agree that Bradley is easily our most tradeable asset. There is no way we make a big trade to add a big fish without having Bradley in the deal.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2012, 06:34:25 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
If I'm DA there is no way I'm trading Bradley for Gortat, Varejao or pretty much any other player that has any chance of being available to us.

Why?

1. Bradley is an elite (and game changing) player on defense.  He had the potential to becomes a Payton/Rodman type player in terms of the way he could one day impact the game defensively.  When you have a guy who can dominate a game without needing the ball in his hands (like Rondo) teams are typically very hessitant to give those guys up.


2. Rondo is the future of this team, and he LOVES playing with Bradley.  The two have exceptionally good chemistry together already - Rondo knows exactly where to Bradley's sweet spot is, and Avery's defensive ability covers nicely for Rondo's tendancy to cheat on defense.  With Boston already starting to transition into the new generation they will want guys who are young and who can play alongside Rondo once our 'big two' retire - Bradley is perfect.

3. We are currently somewhat inside a transition period.  Danny wants guys who are capable of helping this team compete for a title, but at the same time he doesn't really want to 'rent' old guys who may only stick around for a year.  This is made obvious by the number of long term contracts Ainge handed out this season (Terry, Lee, Green, etc).   Bradley is only 21 years old and has massive potential, but aside from that he has already proven his ability to be a major contributer on a chapionship contender.  Plus we all know Danny and Doc love guys who are warriors, who play with 110% effort every night, and who are willing to sacrifice their body for the greater good of the team.  Bradley is the purest example of the type of player Doc and DA want on this team right now.

4. Bradley is on a very small rookie contract.  On the one hand this means we have him on a major bargain, because his contribution to the team FAR outweighs what we are paying him.  On the other hand his contract is too small to match salaries with any other (useful) player in a trade, so any trade involving Bradley would also require us to give up other key players too.  Bradley on his own is such a valuable player to us, so giving him AND another key player up is giving up a lot...

5. He's coming off major surgery on both shoulders.  For us that is practically zero risk due to his small contract, but for any other team it's a major risk because they would need to give up a Josh Smith / Marcin Gortat calibre player in order to convince Doc to part with him. 

Also the claim about Bradley not having the size to play SG - absolutely false.  Does anyone remember the classic Detroit combination of Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars?  Was probably one of the most dominant guard combo's of all time, and it reminds me a LOT of what we have in Rondo + Bradley. 

Look at Bradley's age along with his defensive ability and his already solid offensive game.  He'll never be a Michael Jordan, Tracy McGrady or even an Allen Iverson calibre player on offense, but he's very capable of becoming a Joe Dumars calibre player on both ends of the floor.

If Doc does do a trade, then (as I've been saying for a while now) our most redundant players are:

1. Lee
2. Bass / Sullinger (either one of the two)

Bradley will be back in our lineup well before the Jan 15 (that date at which we can trade our new guys) and once he is we have the following players / roles in our guard rotation:

1. Rondo - Pure playmaker and distributer
2. Terry - Perimeter shooter and clutch scorer
3. Bradley - Lock down defender
4. Barbosa - Slasher / volume scorer
5. Lee - jack of all trades guy

The only guys you could argue redundancy with are Lee and Barbosa, but so far Barbosa has done a pretty decent job as a backup PG (4 Assists/TO) and has kept us in a lot of games with his ability to put points on the board in a REAL hurry.  His min contact salary also makes him not very useful in any potential trade deals.

Lee on the other hand has quietly done a very small amount of everything, and a large amount of nothing.  His most valuable asset right now is his defense, but that becomes a moot point once Bradley returns.  His solid contract ($5M/year) will contribute well to any 'salary match', while he is relatively young and there are a lot of teams who would have interest in him.

Bass and Sully are both undersized PF's who can only play one position (both suck and C and are too slow for SF).  You could argue that Bass is of greater value due to his stronger mobility and defense, but you could also argue Sully is more valuable becuase he's very young (20), a very good rebounder, and a capable inside scorer.  Plus he's shown us over the last couple of games that he's very capable of hitting the midrange jumper...and like Barbosa/Bradley his small rookie contact wouldn't do much for salary matching.

Actually, in our current situation Lee + Sully probably works the best.  That adds up to right on about $7M which is pretty much a dead match for Gortat's contract.  Throw in a 1st round pick and Phoenix are getting a pretty good deal.  They get a fairly young and athletic starting calibre SG who can do a bit of everything.  They get a very young PF with great skills and solid upside.  They get a 1st round pick that they can use to draft more talent. 

For us, we get Gortat, a legitimate double-double on a nightly basis and a guy who's got the potential to be an All-Star if put in the right situation. 

Our lineup then looks like this:

PG: Rajon Rondo / Leandro Barbosa
SG: Avery Bradley / Jason Terry
SF: Paul Pierce / Jeff Green / Kris Joseph
PF: Kevin Garnett / Brandon Bass
C: Marcin Gortat / Chris Wilcox / Jason Collins   

Gortat is also young enough to be our center of the future, and our future lineup could look like this:

PG: Rajon Rondo
SG: Avery Bradley
SF: Jeff Green
PF: Brandon Bass
C: Marcin Gortat

Pretty nice ballance between scoring, defense and rebounding on that team there and it would also be a very athletic lineup.

I like the Gortat idea - he's a VERY good center who (due to his small contact) we could potentially give up relatively little to get. 

Phoenix may even take Darko as part of the deal - they may like the ability to buy him out for an extra Roster spot and a bit of extra cap space, and if he's not going to stick around ere it's a  benefit to us as well. 

I actually really think this deal benefits both teams.  Sullinger and Lee are both good enough to start for Phoenix (Sullinger ironically is probably better then Beasley already, and Lee could either start or play the sixth man behind Shannon Brown) while they could easilly play Scola at center. 

For us we'd get Gortat who - even in his limited offensive role - is still practically averaging a double double.  He's at 11 points, 9 rebounds and 3 blocks right now in 33 minutes, which is exactly what we need.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2012, 07:02:59 AM »

Offline nostar

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 754
  • Tommy Points: 74
If we can get Gortat for Lee+Sully and a 1st...let's have it done the second Lee is eligible in January. That would be an absolute dream. I'd trade to pick up Pietrus after the trade for a willing 3rd string guard/forward.

I highly doubt PHX would do that though. Gortat is worth more on the open market than a backup SG, a rookie PF with a medical red-flag and a late first round pick. Millsap is probably more attainable for that package.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2012, 09:33:15 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
the chances AB gets traded this year are next to none

I tend to agree with this.  Not because I think he is so good that he can't be traded, but because I can't see any GM valuing him nearly as much as the C's do at the moment, based on the very small sample size. 

As one of the few real growing assets Danny has, he needs to get tremendous value to trade Bradley...and I imagine it would be hard for most GMs to give up a premium player for a package built around an undersized SG who was horrible for 3/4 of his NBA career to date, and is coming off surgery on both shoulders.  GMs know, those are the type of trades that can either make or break their career, and not many would put their neck out for them at this point.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2012, 10:01:24 AM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11365
  • Tommy Points: 867
Gortat would be a perfect guy to get but I don't think I would trade Bradley for him.  Right now, our worst first team to second team drop off is when Rondo sits and Barbosa is played at PG (see 82games.com).  I think when Bradley gets back, be becomes our primary back-up PG and will solve that problem nicely.

I could see us offering Lee+Sullinger or maybe Bass+Barbosa+Melo, neither of which are likely enough but maybe.

If we Trade Green in this, we create an even bigger hole (bigger than back-up PG) at back-up SF.  I am not convinced that Dudley or Tucker could be the answer so I don't see Green going out for Gortat unless the deal expands to other teams or lots of players.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2012, 10:05:30 AM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288
Bradley is untouchable IMO.

You're a smart man and don't let anyone tell you differently sir.
TP to the guy who said it and you for agreeing.

I also agree, but for different reasons. Aside from Pierce, Rondo, and KG, I'm not against trading anyone, but Bradley's stock is pretty low right now. I'd rather let him remind the league just how good he is before we entertain real offers for him.

So are you suggesting that AB wouldn't be able to fetch Gortat now? Cause then id.agree with you.

When he comes back and reminds the league how good he is Gortat is probably is probably someone we would hope could be had for AB, if we ended up exploring trades.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #130 on: November 20, 2012, 10:08:57 AM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288
It comes down to what do we need more and what is more valuable to this team.

AB- all defensive 2 guard

Gortat- rebounding 7 ft and one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.


Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #131 on: November 20, 2012, 10:12:59 AM »

Offline CapnDunks

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 222
  • Tommy Points: 13
Bradley is untouchable IMO.

You're a smart man and don't let anyone tell you differently sir.
TP to the guy who said it and you for agreeing.

I also agree, but for different reasons. Aside from Pierce, Rondo, and KG, I'm not against trading anyone, but Bradley's stock is pretty low right now. I'd rather let him remind the league just how good he is before we entertain real offers for him.

I was thinking exactly this. And the same thing applies somewhat to Lee. Granted he would have until January to Bump his stock back up, but he hasn't exactly been showcased so far.

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2012, 10:37:26 AM »

Offline mkogav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2868
  • Tommy Points: 537
If Gortat is truly available, I am sure Danny is doing his due diligence. Danny has never been afraid to make a controversial or unpopular trades. I believe if AB is the cost for Gortat and Danny believes Gortat make the team better, he will pay the price.

However, these are the Suns we are talking about. They are not about winning. They are about making $$$ or in this case "saving" money.

Gortat is signed through 2014 at $7.5 million. That's a super reasonable contract. Why would they trade him other than for $$$ savings?

The Cs could offer Lee, Darko, maybe a future pick, and $$$. This would save the Suns about a million (prorated) this season. Darko goes off the books next season, which save them about $2 million. Lee is signed on a reasonable dollars the following two seasons.

Plus if Boston tossed in the max cash allowed, ~$3 million, the Suns come out about +$5.5-6 million.

That's a lot of bottles for Cristal for Sarver.

Mk




Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2012, 10:41:53 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
If Gortat is truly available, I am sure Danny is doing his due diligence. Danny has never been afraid to make a controversial or unpopular trades. I believe if AB is the cost for Gortat and Danny believes Gortat make the team better, he will pay the price.

However, these are the Suns we are talking about. They are not about winning. They are about making $$$ or in this case "saving" money.

Gortat is signed through 2014 at $7.5 million. That's a super reasonable contract. Why would they trade him other than for $$$ savings?

The Cs could offer Lee, Darko, maybe a future pick, and $$$. This would save the Suns about a million (prorated) this season. Darko goes off the books next season, which save them about $2 million. Lee is signed on a reasonable dollars the following two seasons.

Plus if Boston tossed in the max cash allowed, ~$3 million, the Suns come out about +$5.5-6 million.

That's a lot of bottles for Cristal for Sarver.

Mk



Eh, lets not get it twisted.  Sarver is cheap, but he is very much like Jeremy Jacobs.  He will put in just enough money to sell tickets, and then cheap out when it comes to putting in the extra cash needed to get over the top. 

Trading a productive player on a bargain contract for cap savings is not his style. 

Re: Boston Very Interested in Gortat
« Reply #134 on: November 20, 2012, 10:47:41 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1949
  • Tommy Points: 134
I agree with LEE and SULLY for gortat. Id be all for it then. Not for bradley tho. People will remember how good we are as a team once bradley comes back and plays along side rondo. Right now most of you just see a new toy that you want right now by any means necessary, stupid. Once AB comes back we won't need LEE and with gortat we don't need sully. I believe danny can get this done without dealing bradley. As alot of you have already stated....Other people around the league probably don't hold AB as high as we do. I doubt the suns GM says AB or no deal.