Author Topic: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.  (Read 2275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2460
  • Tommy Points: 134
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 12:12:25 AM »
There is no shot blocking presence. AT ALL.

He should start from that.

This is a problem but I dont think its THE problem tonight.

This team should be able to allow 90-95 points on "lazy" defensive nights and still score 100-110 points to get the W. They have enough offensive talent.

We scored 75 points tonight when we have guys like Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Rajon Rondo, Courtney Lee and Leandro Barbosa.  That is a huge issue when these guys have all shown that they can fill it up consistently on a nightly basis for their respective teams in the past.
  Pierce hasn't been a consistent scorer from night to night in a couple of years, either.
what are you on

His season averages are right at 19, but look at the game logs.  Plenty of stinkers, and clearly can be shut down by elite defenses now. 

Last year, he scored in the single digits in 10% of games.  The year before, it was 5 games, with more and more in the 10-14pt range, far off that 19pt average.  No consistency.  38 one game, 13 the next.  15/19 one night, 2-12 the next.

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2408
  • Tommy Points: 306
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 12:31:12 AM »
There is no shot blocking presence. AT ALL.

He should start from that.

This is a problem but I dont think its THE problem tonight.

This team should be able to allow 90-95 points on "lazy" defensive nights and still score 100-110 points to get the W. They have enough offensive talent.

We scored 75 points tonight when we have guys like Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Rajon Rondo, Courtney Lee and Leandro Barbosa.  That is a huge issue when these guys have all shown that they can fill it up consistently on a nightly basis for their respective teams in the past.

You mean the distant past, right?  KG hasn't exactly filled it up in a while, Barbosa is like 5 years removed from 6POY and that was with PHX in the D'Antoni years.  Pierce hasn't been a consistent scorer from night to night in a couple of years, either.

Barbosa has shown THIS YEAR that he can fill it up really quickly, and Garnett has scored quickly and consistently when the team has provided him with good looks. The issue is not personnel. Those who think we need to do a blockbuster trade in order to score in high numbers are kidding themselves.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Offline CapnDunks

  • Gerald Wallace
  • Posts: 121
  • Tommy Points: 8
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 02:45:55 AM »
I feel like if Lee weren't having so much trouble getting settled and hitting his shots then Terry would be coming off the bench and running point more. Although IMO running these Ray plays are much of the reason Lee's been struggling in the first place.

I really don't get why they signed Terry if they're only going to play him off the ball.  When they signed him, they at least talked a good game.  They said they needed another guy who can handle the ball in pick and roll situations and create his own shot and Terry is that guy.  They're using him in the way that pushed Ray to Miami.  It's absolutely brilliant.

Terry is one of the best shooters in the league off the dribble.  He's also a good passer and very adept at bringing the ball up and walking into a three point shot.  They have him doing done of that.

I just don't understand why Doc pares everyone's talents down so Rondo can have the ball all the freaking time.

As far as I know, no championship team has ever had only one player who plays over 30 minutes a game with an assist percentage over 20.  In 2008, both Rondo and Pierce were over 20.  Making everyone role players so one guy can get some assist mark doesn't work.

Offline BballTim

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21129
  • Tommy Points: 944
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 03:57:30 AM »
As far as I know, no championship team has ever had only one player who plays over 30 minutes a game with an assist percentage over 20.  In 2008, both Rondo and Pierce were over 20.  Making everyone role players so one guy can get some assist mark doesn't work.

  Is that something you'd expect to know off the top of your head?

  In any case, it looks like none of the Spurs or Lakers teams that have won titles since 1999 had more than one player who plays over 30 minutes a game with an assist percentage over 20. So that's 9 out of the last 14 champs that don't meet your criteria.

Okay, clearly I didn't think my criteria through.  Basically, I hate watching a team where one guy monopolizes the ball to the tune of an assist percentage in the 40s or above unless that guy is Magic Johnson and they're playing at a fast pace.  Rondo's assist percentage in 2008 was 28.  There's no reason for him to have the ball all the time if it means his teammates stand around so much.

  So you've never enjoyed watching teams led by Thomas, Stockton, KJ, Kidd, Nash, Paul or Williams? Interesting.

  In any case, Rondo gets the team open shots and they score pretty efficiently, which is good for a team that tends to take low efficiency shots and doesn't have a ton of shot creators.


the problem with this celtics is that Rondos assist number comes from spot jumpers, and not like stocktons from Malone attacking

other than a couple of alleys i know....

  First of all, it's not Rondo's fault that he doesn't have a Karl Malone to pass the ball to. Secondly, Rondo's leading the league in assists at the rim by a fairly healthy margin right now, and he's been top 3 in that category each of the last 3 years. Those alley oops add up.

Online chambers

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3065
  • Tommy Points: 331
  • Banner 18...all that matters.
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 03:59:01 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?b=1&v=UWlJiz1X8q0

"Game 4: 4 minutes 28 seconds 87-81
Game 5:2 minutes 28 seconds 84-81
These are scores in the 4th period and time left in Games 4 and 5 in 2011 versus the Heat. The Celtics were ahead in both games and Rondo was hurt, playing with one arm."  -Pearl 131  So close, yet so far.

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2408
  • Tommy Points: 306
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 06:03:54 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.

I love doc as a coach...

I thought I was pretty objective about how I thought the offense needed to be simplified a little bit.

Was definitely not hate towards doc.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Online chambers

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3065
  • Tommy Points: 331
  • Banner 18...all that matters.
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 07:08:08 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.

I love doc as a coach...

I thought I was pretty objective about how I thought the offense needed to be simplified a little bit.

Was definitely not hate towards doc.

Nothing wrong with your original post, no diss intended at all. I'm laughing at some of the replies to your opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?b=1&v=UWlJiz1X8q0

"Game 4: 4 minutes 28 seconds 87-81
Game 5:2 minutes 28 seconds 84-81
These are scores in the 4th period and time left in Games 4 and 5 in 2011 versus the Heat. The Celtics were ahead in both games and Rondo was hurt, playing with one arm."  -Pearl 131  So close, yet so far.

Offline scaryjerry

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1622
  • Tommy Points: 72
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 08:30:36 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.

those peers also thought he was the worst coach in the nba before KG im sure...so who really cares, doc is not on the level of popovich...just stop

Online More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2460
  • Tommy Points: 134
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 09:45:47 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.

those peers also thought he was the worst coach in the nba before KG im sure...so who really cares, doc is not on the level of popovich...just stop

Doc's probably a lot like McHale in many ways as a coach.  He falls in love with his roster and drastically favors the position he played as a player, plus players seem to really like him and like playing for him.  McHale might be a better teacher of the game, Doc might be better in-game (if it's possible for him to be better than anyone) simply due to sideline experience.

Offline RyNye

  • NGT
  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 620
  • Tommy Points: 89
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 10:16:56 AM »
Honestly, it is highly unlikely that this team would have had any more success with Pop then with Rivers, or any other coach.

I mean, the reason we didn't win more championships were injury related, which Pop couldn't have done a thing about. So 2009 and 2010 wouldn't have been any different, unless Pop magically stopped KG and Perk's knees from exploding.

Also, I love how people are complaining about things that the statistics specifically show are false. As someone already mentioned, Rondo is leading the league in assists at the rim (as well as overall assists). If you look at our plus/minus numbers, PER, WS, or any other metric you care to look at, we are better with Rondo than not with Rondo.

Yes, our team is not playing well right now. Every team has stretches like this. Heck, the Cs have started off seasons slowly twice in recent memory, and came back roaring later. Can we SERIOUSLY stop hyperventilating and making up complaints that aren't even true every time there is a loss? This isn't Jordan's Bulls that are going to win 70 games, we are going to have losses. You will add 10 years to your lifespan if you just calm the $*&*# down.

Offline celtics2

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 847
  • Tommy Points: 42
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2012, 10:24:34 AM »
Another Doc Rivers team underachieving  ::). Sometimes I ponder what Gregg Popovich could do with this roster. And if he was head coach of the Celtics, how many more championship rings would be on KG's finger?

1 more.

Online wdleehi

  • Forums ViceRoy
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30370
  • Tommy Points: 1331
  • Pre-school artwork
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2012, 10:26:15 AM »
I thought the same thing earlier. 

To much of the offense takes advantage of Ray's strengths. 



I rather see if they could add something that plays to Terry's strength. 


Running the Clippers with Redz.

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17965
  • Tommy Points: 634
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 10:32:35 AM »
I thought the same thing earlier. 

To much of the offense takes advantage of Ray's strengths. 



I rather see if they could add something that plays to Terry's strength.

Yeah, I agree.  I think one of the real problems though, is that Lee wasn't able to really fit in with the starting unit yet. 

I think the starting units offense works well (at least when they are hitting their shots), and Terry has been able to slide in there, and fit in well.  But, you are then losing his ability to create shots for the second unit.

This is all a work in progress, and a lot will change when Bradley is back, so grain of salt and all that...but I really think this team will be at their best by the end of the season, if they are able to bring Terry off the bench, and allow him to create his own shot more, off the dribble.

Offline Fafnir

  • Global Moderator
  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25143
  • Tommy Points: 947
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 10:34:45 AM »
Yeah I'd rather Terry be in that role than Barbossa.

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2408
  • Tommy Points: 306
Re: Doc needs to tweak his system a little bit.
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 10:37:19 AM »
I love when people say 'I wonder how many rings we'd have if so and so was coaching instead of Doc'

Roc Rivers is regarded as his peers as the best or second best coach in the NBA in contention with Greg Popovich.

Stop please haters.

I love doc as a coach...

I thought I was pretty objective about how I thought the offense needed to be simplified a little bit.

Was definitely not hate towards doc.

Nothing wrong with your original post, no diss intended at all. I'm laughing at some of the replies to your opinion.

Ahh ok no problem.

Just wanted to clarify.  8)


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog