Author Topic: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era  (Read 2444 times)

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Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 10:30:07 AM »

Offline alajet

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

Rondo plays in the nets game we win by 10+. There was a glaring need for rondo in the game from start to finish. Looking back, I couldn't count the times my friend and I said something along the lines of "imagine if rondo were playing" or "we are terrible without rondo".

Of course, by the same token, we would've won if Doc used the rotations smarter (put Lee in the starting line up), not played Green at the 4 against Humphries, etc.

It's the defense that let us down, and much of it can also be attributed to missing Bradley... and the aforementioned poor job Doc did in that game.

We only had a letdown offensively at the very beginning of the game and in the 4th quarter, which as we know has traditionally been a letdown for us offensively Rondo or not.

Can that offense be sustainable without Rondo? That's something to discuss, but I think with our current roster we're better prepared to go forward without Rondo than in years past. That's all I was saying, and I don't think the Nets game provides any proof of how much Rondo is important to this team because it didn't. But this has nothing to do with us being better with or without Rondo, all I'm saying that as we're currently constructed, missing him shouldn't break our team.

I'd be a bit more worried about KG and Pierce considering our replacements in those positions.

While I agree that KG and Paul are irreplaceable, I still cannot understand how do you think Leandro Barbosa is a suitable PG replacement in any way.
We would have to ride Paul in a game for 35-40 minutes without even taking a breather in offense for a moment. I don't think we are capable of sustaining that for a long period in the season.

Paul Pierce only played 34 minutes in the Nets game, and only had 12 FG attempts, so let's not extrapolate from that the conclusions you're drawing.

We also have Terry, who in my opinion should be the primary backup PG (and if Rondo is out, I think he's should be the starting PG). We have Lee who can at least bring the ball down to start the offense in a much better capacity than what House did way back when. We have Pierce, we have Green... all of them are capable making plays and creating scoring opportunities.

The team dynamic will change certainly, but it's not catastrophic.

You're right. Whatever I say will end up being a baseless assumption, after all.
I hope Rondo goes down for around 15-20 matches and we will get to see how well we can play without him.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2012, 10:35:33 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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I hope Rondo goes down for around 15-20 matches and we will get to see how well we can play without him.


Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2012, 10:38:01 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Here's how  I look at Rondo's progression:

06/07:  An idea sparked in a writer's mind.  He had an idea for a movie, and presented it to his boss.  The boss said, "I like it, not love it, but I think it's good enough to go in the theaters."

07/08:  The stars are cast, but there are doubts.  Is this movie, despite all the talent it has, good enough?

08/09 (especially the playoffs):  A 30-second teaser is released, and everyone is talking about it, like, "Wow, this movie could be pretty sick."

09/10 (especially the playoffs):  A full-length trailer is released in theaters, and now everyone is just dying to see the movie.

10/11 (due to multiple injuries):  Sad news is released, as the movie has been pushed back a couple months.

11/12:  The movie is released, and it's epic.  There are some ups and downs, but in the end, it's clear that this movie is deserving of being a blockbuster.

So, what's next?  Well, a series, of course!  I can't wait to see where the story goes from here, but rest assured, I'll be watching intently.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2012, 10:38:13 AM »

Offline celtsfan84

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This might be the only Rajon Rondo thread in the past several seasons not to immediately turn to a comparison between Rondo and CP3 for no real reason.

With that said, here goes:

Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo.Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo.Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo. Rondo CP3. CP3 Rondo.

And just for the sake of variety - Rose Parker Westbrook DeRon Kyrie.

Enjoy.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2012, 10:38:33 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

Rondo plays in the nets game we win by 10+. There was a glaring need for rondo in the game from start to finish. Looking back, I couldn't count the times my friend and I said something along the lines of "imagine if rondo were playing" or "we are terrible without rondo".

Of course, by the same token, we would've won if Doc used the rotations smarter (put Lee in the starting line up), not played Green at the 4 against Humphries, etc.

It's the defense that let us down, and much of it can also be attributed to missing Bradley... and the aforementioned poor job Doc did in that game.

We only had a letdown offensively at the very beginning of the game and in the 4th quarter, which as we know has traditionally been a letdown for us offensively Rondo or not.

Can that offense be sustainable without Rondo? That's something to discuss, but I think with our current roster we're better prepared to go forward without Rondo than in years past. That's all I was saying, and I don't think the Nets game provides any proof of how much Rondo is important to this team because it didn't. But this has nothing to do with us being better with or without Rondo, all I'm saying that as we're currently constructed, missing him shouldn't break our team.

I'd be a bit more worried about KG and Pierce considering our replacements in those positions.

While I agree that KG and Paul are irreplaceable, I still cannot understand how do you think Leandro Barbosa is a suitable PG replacement in any way.
We would have to ride Paul in a game for 35-40 minutes without even taking a breather in offense for a moment. I don't think we are capable of sustaining that for a long period in the season.

Paul Pierce only played 34 minutes in the Nets game, and only had 12 FG attempts, so let's not extrapolate from that the conclusions you're drawing.

We also have Terry, who in my opinion should be the primary backup PG (and if Rondo is out, I think he's should be the starting PG). We have Lee who can at least bring the ball down to start the offense in a much better capacity than what House did way back when. We have Pierce, we have Green... all of them are capable making plays and creating scoring opportunities.

The team dynamic will change certainly, but it's not catastrophic.

You're right. Whatever I say will end up being a baseless assumption, after all.
I hope Rondo goes down for around 15-20 matches and we will get to see how well we can play without him.

All I've said in this thread is that we're better prepared to handle things in a Rondo absence than we have in the past. Would you dispute that? The other point I've been making is that the Nets game doesn't provide us with any evidence of how crucial Rondo is to this team because it didn't, in my opinion it showed the opposite.

All are pretty much baseless assumptions at this point (well, not completely baseless), even from my side. The only thing I have is a theory, and the only game we have to look into so far in this season just doesn't provide the evidence suggested in the OP, that's all I've tried to say in this regard.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2012, 10:39:09 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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You're really reaching if you're using a 2 game sample to prove that Rondo is the best player on the Celtics

With that said he is the most important player, but only because Pierce and KG are getting older

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 11:50:09 AM »

Offline alajet

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

Rondo plays in the nets game we win by 10+. There was a glaring need for rondo in the game from start to finish. Looking back, I couldn't count the times my friend and I said something along the lines of "imagine if rondo were playing" or "we are terrible without rondo".

Of course, by the same token, we would've won if Doc used the rotations smarter (put Lee in the starting line up), not played Green at the 4 against Humphries, etc.

It's the defense that let us down, and much of it can also be attributed to missing Bradley... and the aforementioned poor job Doc did in that game.

We only had a letdown offensively at the very beginning of the game and in the 4th quarter, which as we know has traditionally been a letdown for us offensively Rondo or not.

Can that offense be sustainable without Rondo? That's something to discuss, but I think with our current roster we're better prepared to go forward without Rondo than in years past. That's all I was saying, and I don't think the Nets game provides any proof of how much Rondo is important to this team because it didn't. But this has nothing to do with us being better with or without Rondo, all I'm saying that as we're currently constructed, missing him shouldn't break our team.

I'd be a bit more worried about KG and Pierce considering our replacements in those positions.

While I agree that KG and Paul are irreplaceable, I still cannot understand how do you think Leandro Barbosa is a suitable PG replacement in any way.
We would have to ride Paul in a game for 35-40 minutes without even taking a breather in offense for a moment. I don't think we are capable of sustaining that for a long period in the season.

Paul Pierce only played 34 minutes in the Nets game, and only had 12 FG attempts, so let's not extrapolate from that the conclusions you're drawing.

We also have Terry, who in my opinion should be the primary backup PG (and if Rondo is out, I think he's should be the starting PG). We have Lee who can at least bring the ball down to start the offense in a much better capacity than what House did way back when. We have Pierce, we have Green... all of them are capable making plays and creating scoring opportunities.

The team dynamic will change certainly, but it's not catastrophic.

You're right. Whatever I say will end up being a baseless assumption, after all.
I hope Rondo goes down for around 15-20 matches and we will get to see how well we can play without him.

All I've said in this thread is that we're better prepared to handle things in a Rondo absence than we have in the past. Would you dispute that? The other point I've been making is that the Nets game doesn't provide us with any evidence of how crucial Rondo is to this team because it didn't, in my opinion it showed the opposite.

All are pretty much baseless assumptions at this point (well, not completely baseless), even from my side. The only thing I have is a theory, and the only game we have to look into so far in this season just doesn't provide the evidence suggested in the OP, that's all I've tried to say in this regard.

I won't argue about that. Providing Bradley also returns to the roster at some point, this team looks like it can at least hold its own for stretches, but I have doubts about long term absence.
And of course, one game doesn't show you anything. We could have won that game or got destroyed. Neither of those happened, but the sample is too small to get anything useful out of, anyway.

The thing is, at times, we don't play proper basketball when Rondo plays rather passively.
From my perspective, I doubt we can handle the offensive part against a tough play-off defense playing team without Rondo. And Nets aren't playing great defense at this point of the season. Actually, a lot of teams are soft, I suppose, which is only natural.

I sounded rather harsh without intending to do so, though.
Apologies.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2012, 12:21:29 PM »

Offline ItStaysYang

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There is a feeling in regards to Rondo that wasnt here a week ago. The Nets game was kind of eye opening for me. Its not that we played badly- we diddnt. There was just something missing. We were without our leader.
With today's game, I feel Rondo has completely broken through as a transcendant player of this era. He is being mentioned as one of the legitimate favorites for MVP (not just by Boston sports reporters). There was an article posted today on NBA.com calling him the best point guard in the league. Its not that hes all of a sudden better than he was a few days ago, its just that he has done his thing once again. He has proven himself utterly enough times.
The Rondo era has begun.

Ummm... where have you been?

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2012, 01:22:16 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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There is a feeling in regards to Rondo that wasnt here a week ago. The Nets game was kind of eye opening for me. Its not that we played badly- we diddnt. There was just something missing. We were without our leader.
With today's game, I feel Rondo has completely broken through as a transcendant player of this era. He is being mentioned as one of the legitimate favorites for MVP (not just by Boston sports reporters). There was an article posted today on NBA.com calling him the best point guard in the league. Its not that hes all of a sudden better than he was a few days ago, its just that he has done his thing once again. He has proven himself utterly enough times.
The Rondo era has begun.

Ummm... where have you been?
Ive been here and have seen all the amazing things everyone else has but this was the first time where it really looked like without Rondo, Paul and Kevin cant take over anymore. Even last year, when Rondo hurt his wrist, Paul seemed to be able to turn it on like it was 05'. Paul can still score his ass off and play point foward but Rondo is clearly the guy on this team now. The last two games just put that in perspective.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2012, 01:23:10 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

Rondo plays in the nets game we win by 10+. There was a glaring need for rondo in the game from start to finish. Looking back, I couldn't count the times my friend and I said something along the lines of "imagine if rondo were playing" or "we are terrible without rondo".

Of course, by the same token, we would've won if Doc used the rotations smarter (put Lee in the starting line up), not played Green at the 4 against Humphries, etc.

It's the defense that let us down, and much of it can also be attributed to missing Bradley... and the aforementioned poor job Doc did in that game.

We only had a letdown offensively at the very beginning of the game and in the 4th quarter, which as we know has traditionally been a letdown for us offensively Rondo or not.

Can that offense be sustainable without Rondo? That's something to discuss, but I think with our current roster we're better prepared to go forward without Rondo than in years past. That's all I was saying, and I don't think the Nets game provides any proof of how much Rondo is important to this team because it didn't. But this has nothing to do with us being better with or without Rondo, all I'm saying that as we're currently constructed, missing him shouldn't break our team.

I'd be a bit more worried about KG and Pierce considering our replacements in those positions.

While I agree that KG and Paul are irreplaceable, I still cannot understand how do you think Leandro Barbosa is a suitable PG replacement in any way.
We would have to ride Paul in a game for 35-40 minutes without even taking a breather in offense for a moment. I don't think we are capable of sustaining that for a long period in the season.

Paul Pierce only played 34 minutes in the Nets game, and only had 12 FG attempts, so let's not extrapolate from that the conclusions you're drawing.

We also have Terry, who in my opinion should be the primary backup PG (and if Rondo is out, I think he's should be the starting PG). We have Lee who can at least bring the ball down to start the offense in a much better capacity than what House did way back when. We have Pierce, we have Green... all of them are capable making plays and creating scoring opportunities.

The team dynamic will change certainly, but it's not catastrophic.

You're right. Whatever I say will end up being a baseless assumption, after all.
I hope Rondo goes down for around 15-20 matches and we will get to see how well we can play without him.

All I've said in this thread is that we're better prepared to handle things in a Rondo absence than we have in the past. Would you dispute that? The other point I've been making is that the Nets game doesn't provide us with any evidence of how crucial Rondo is to this team because it didn't, in my opinion it showed the opposite.

All are pretty much baseless assumptions at this point (well, not completely baseless), even from my side. The only thing I have is a theory, and the only game we have to look into so far in this season just doesn't provide the evidence suggested in the OP, that's all I've tried to say in this regard.
No Rondo, no championship. With Rondo, we have a shot at a title.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2012, 01:53:22 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I thought the beginning of the Rondo era happened at the end of the 2010 Finals.

  It started at or near the beginning of the playoffs that year. Rondo was one of the top players in the playoffs until he picked up some kind of leg injury in the Orlando series.

  If you look at his play since then when he was healthy and the team wasn't in a post-lockout funk it's been very impressive. His assist totals (compared to other pgs since 1985) are eye-popping.

  If you look at his first 20 games of 10-11 (before the injuries kicked in) he had 275 assists, 3rd most for anyone in their 1st 20 games since 1985 and over 30 assists more than any active point guard has ever had in their 1st 20 games. Look at the last 24 games in 11-12 (the assist streak) and whether you look at the last 24 games of a season or that point in a season his 331 assists is more than anyone besides Stockton had and more than 30 more than any active point guard has ever had. His first 9 games this year, while not at the level of his 10-11 start, is better than anyone's started a season aside from Magic or Stockton and 7 more than any active point guard has ever had in their first 9 games.

  For the record, this isn't to compare what Rondo's been able to do with, for instance, Nash's mvp years or CP3 before the knee injury. Just pointing out that the "Rondo era" has been going on for a while.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2012, 05:53:22 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Here's how  I look at Rondo's progression:

06/07:  An idea sparked in a writer's mind.  He had an idea for a movie, and presented it to his boss.  The boss said, "I like it, not love it, but I think it's good enough to go in the theaters."

07/08:  The stars are cast, but there are doubts.  Is this movie, despite all the talent it has, good enough?

08/09 (especially the playoffs):  A 30-second teaser is released, and everyone is talking about it, like, "Wow, this movie could be pretty sick."

09/10 (especially the playoffs):  A full-length trailer is released in theaters, and now everyone is just dying to see the movie.

10/11 (due to multiple injuries):  Sad news is released, as the movie has been pushed back a couple months.

11/12:  The movie is released, and it's epic.  There are some ups and downs, but in the end, it's clear that this movie is deserving of being a blockbuster.

So, what's next?  Well, a series, of course!  I can't wait to see where the story goes from here, but rest assured, I'll be watching intently.

TP.  That was very cleverly done.  The Rondo Show has definitely got me hooked, as well. 
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Dennis Schroeder/Ray McCallum
Tyreke Evans/Jeremy Lamb/R. Ledo
Giannis Antetokounpo/Darrell Arthur/V. Claver
Kelly Olynyk/Nerlens Noel/C. Jefferson
Timofey Mozgov/B. Wright/A. Nicholson

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2012, 10:31:15 PM »

Offline Galeto

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The Nets game is an example why Rondo is indispensable?  No way.  The Celtics lost that game because of terrible rebounding in the first half and because Bass kept bricking open jumpers in the fourth.  Also because Pierce missed key free throws and committed a dumb foul.  They were very good offensively, especially with it being the second game of a back to back on the road.

The 20-2 stretch in the third quarter was the most dominant the Celtics had been all year.  How can someone watch that and think, hmm, this team is terrible without Rondo.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2012, 10:45:39 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

  The team can hopefully win during the season without Rondo but they won't go far in the playoffs. Kind of like 2009, when we cruised through the season when KG was out but struggled in the postseason.

Re: The last two games mark the beginning of the Rondo era
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2012, 10:55:27 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Don't know what the Nets game has to do with it, I felt the exact opposite and reinforced my theory that Rondo is not as important in this roster as he's been in the past.

What we missed was perimeter guard defense, particularly when you start Barbosa with Terry together against one of the biggest and more offensive talented backcourts in all the NBA. Bradley could have filled in quite nicely here instead, but he's out also.

We have a very versatile team offensively as far as playmaking and ball-handling goes.

Anyways, while when Rondo is on the floor we're better, not having him is not going to break this team either in my opinion.

That said, nice game today.

  The team can hopefully win during the season without Rondo but they won't go far in the playoffs. Kind of like 2009, when we cruised through the season when KG was out but struggled in the postseason.
Kinda with KG our scoring differential was +9, without him it was +2. We won a bunch of close games to get our record to what it was.

 

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