Author Topic: Israel v Hamas  (Read 8732 times)

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Israel v Hamas
« on: November 17, 2012, 04:39:24 PM »

Offline Redz

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Just thought we should have a thread for this. 

Lots of missiles being tossed back and forth.  Israel sure as heck sounds like they had a very strategic response ready to go.

Hopefully this thing doesn't escalate.  Scary stuff.

GOCELTS

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 04:47:28 PM »

Offline heitingas

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I don't understand the back and forth thing....

It's more like 1000 israeli missiles to 1 missile from gaza ratio.

 

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 04:55:24 PM »

Offline JSD

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I don't understand the back and forth thing....

It's more like 1000 israeli missiles to 1 missile from gaza ratio.

This.

Despite US media reports Israel is aggresor per usual.




Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 05:09:55 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I don't understand the back and forth thing....

It's more like 1000 israeli missiles to 1 missile from gaza ratio.

This.

Despite US media reports Israel is aggresor per usual.



You mean outside of those first 5-8 missile strikes from Gaza on them?

Ratio just indicates they were prepared to respond. There's not a salary cap on response to a terrorist attack.

and considering one of Hamass tenants is the destruction of their entire country, I can understand them responding to a strike by them in a highly aggressive fashion. They don't have many Allies in the region, and the Western powers, despite what Obama says, will not help them militarily when push comes to shove.



“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 05:20:05 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Also just to clarify the "1 to 1000" statement, Hamas has fired over 700 rockets into Israel in the last 3 days.

Only 3-5 have directly targeted Tel Av, true, but lets not pretend it's not an ongoing shooting war.

True Hamas has lower tech rockets, and no true air force, so Israel's response has been overwhelming, but Again, when your fighting a enemy who has made the destruction of your race it's top priority, not sure I blame them.

“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 05:28:23 PM »

Offline JSD

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I don't understand the back and forth thing....

It's more like 1000 israeli missiles to 1 missile from gaza ratio.

This.

Despite US media reports Israel is aggresor per usual.



You mean outside of those first 5-8 missile strikes from Gaza on them?

No, I mean outside of how US media reports things.

http://antiwar.com/blog/2012/11/11/israels-latest-assault-on-gaza-the-lie-of-who-started-it/

Quote
First, on Monday, November 5th, Israeli forces shot and killed 23 year old Ahmad Nabhani when he “approached the border fence with Israel.” According to at least one account, Nabhani was mentally challenged.

Then, on Thursday, November 8th, the Israeli Occupation Forces – eight tanks and four bulldozers, to be exact – invaded southern Gaza, shooting and killing a 13-year old boy. Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (via):

According to investigations conducted by PCHR, at approximately 16:30 on Thursday, as a result of the indiscriminate shooting by IOF military vehicles that had moved into the ‘Abassan village, 13-year-old Ahmed Younis Khader Abu Daqqa was seriously wounded by a bullet to the abdomen. At the time he was shot, Ahmed had been playing football with his friends in front of his family’s house, located nearly 1,200 meters away from the area where the IOF were present.

So, even if honest observers brush to the side the cruel and inhumane Israeli blockade on Gaza and refuse to let it influence the equation of exactly which side started this flare up of violence, it is clear Israel started this latest clash. And in response to the response, Israel has waged a harsh, disproportionate military assault.

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 05:41:18 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Yea pardon me If i don't take an Anti-War blog's unsourced opinion of the matter with the same weight I do the AP or other news sources.

If you want a slightly more objective timeline, This one isn't to bad, and includes sources outside the traditional media.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/who-started-the-israel-gaza-conflict/265374/

I personally think the November 9th rocket attack on an IDF patrol was probley the straw that broke the camels back this time, not the 70+ rockets fired into Israel so far this year,

 but if your on the Israel is the aggressor side I'd probley go with the IDF patrol reportedly coming over the line into palestine and killing the 12 year old kid with careless fire on the 8th.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 05:51:08 PM by crownsy »
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 06:21:11 PM »

Offline JSD

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Then you’ll excuse me I don’t consider the Jewish run AP the most credible of sources within regards to this conflict? Anti-war is always loaded with sources, by the way...

Anyway, the link you posted was pretty good in regards to documenting this recent event. I’m not sure how you can simply overlook November 8th though? Though I assume you question who fired first.

The real problem stems from the UN intervention dating back to 1947, but that’s a whole other topic.

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2012, 06:23:29 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Then you’ll excuse me I don’t consider the Jewish run AP the most credible of sources within regards to this conflict? Anti-war is always loaded with sources, by the way...

Anyway, the link you posted was pretty good in regards to documenting this recent event. I’m not sure how you can simply overlook November 8th though? Though I assume you question who fired first.

The real problem stems from the UN intervention dating back to 1947, but that’s a whole other topic.

How did I overlook November 8th? was that when I directly cited it as the incident I would go with if I were to make the argument Israel fired first?

Tensions have been simmering all year, with attacks by both sides. I think both sides would cite November 8th (for hamas) or Nov 10th (for israel) as who "fired First"

But given the 70 documented rocket strikes in 2012 by hamas and numerous response (or premptive if you wanna spin it the other way) strikes this year, I don't really think pinning down one day is a substantial factor.

you have one faction that has committed itself to the destruction of the other (hamas) and another that feels as if they have no allies in the region and are constantly the target of terrorism (israel)

I find it hard to fault Israel for having the audacity to say "enough" and push back against hamas.


“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2012, 06:30:37 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Hamas will get owned, Israel will kick their butt easily!

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 06:41:47 PM »

Offline JSD

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Hamas will get owned, Israel will kick their butt easily!

Are they playing a basketball game or something? I don't understand with post.

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 06:41:49 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Give me Israel to cover the spread on this one.

seriously though, after watching the Palestinian reaction after the 9/11 attacks, I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling when someone craps on them.  Yes, I'm still bitter over that disgusting display (admittedly by some, not all) captured on news video that day and I make no apologies for how I feel about it.

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 06:41:59 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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It always seems to me that there's plenty of blame to go around for all parties involved whenever they start tossing rocks, bullets, and missiles across the Gaza strip at each other. 

I'm just going to close my eyes and hope it all goes away. 

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 06:43:39 PM »

Offline JSD

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Give me Israel to cover the spread on this one.

seriously though, after watching the Palestinian reaction after the 9/11 attacks, I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling when someone craps on them.  Yes, I'm still bitter over that disgusting display (admittedly by some, not all) captured on news video that day and I make no apologies for how I feel about it.

That is how zionist propaganda is designed to make you feel.

Re: Israel v Hamas
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 06:45:35 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Give me Israel to cover the spread on this one.

seriously though, after watching the Palestinian reaction after the 9/11 attacks, I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling when someone craps on them.  Yes, I'm still bitter over that disgusting display (admittedly by some, not all) captured on news video that day and I make no apologies for how I feel about it.

Yes, and tea party rallies represent all Americans. 

I love how you put "some, not all" in parentheses as if it's an insignificant detail. 

 

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