Author Topic: Sullinger's rebounding  (Read 2365 times)

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Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2012, 12:44:17 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Team's are attacking him defensively and it often is pulling him out of rebounding position.

He's also playing a heck of a lot less minutes, that's the biggest reason.
Not only this but he's also getting used to the celtics offensive system of dont crash the glass and retreat to defense as quickly as humanly possible
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Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2012, 12:57:41 PM »

Offline relja

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The "his rebounds per 36 minutes are awful" argument is the worst thing you can say. I mean, fml, the per 36 stats don't say ANYTHING.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2012, 01:35:12 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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PER 36 is silly because he doesn't and will not play 36 minutes.  It is a psuedo stat, plain and simple more for fantasy basketball than the real McCoy.

Fafnir, 30% of shots is not a big amount. A lot of these inside shots are fadaway turnovers too which take him out of position.   How about posting his offensive rebounding numbers if you want to use stats.   MIA is very weak inside and we have consistently failed to exploit this weakness.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2012, 01:52:29 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Per game stats are silly because they don't control for differences in playing time.
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Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2012, 03:06:25 PM »

Offline cman88

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Sully had a solid game tonight, but his biggest problem is honestly that the Refs show him absolutely NO respect..ive seen so many ticky tack fouls called on the kid

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2012, 10:45:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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PER 36 is silly because he doesn't and will not play 36 minutes.  It is a psuedo stat, plain and simple more for fantasy basketball than the real McCoy.

Fafnir, 30% of shots is not a big amount. A lot of these inside shots are fadaway turnovers too which take him out of position.   How about posting his offensive rebounding numbers if you want to use stats.   MIA is very weak inside and we have consistently failed to exploit this weakness.
Every coach in the world cares about how much production a player will give you per minute. Its not made up stat! 5 rebounds in 15 minutes is awesome, 5 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible.

30% of his shots coming off of post ups is a lot, it means that of his 12 shots per game he's taking 3.6 of them out of the post. But that 30% is when he takes the shot or makes a turnover, he's in the post even more than that because he also passes out of the post a lot.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 10:58:31 AM »

Offline RyNye

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The "his rebounds per 36 minutes are awful" argument is the worst thing you can say. I mean, fml, the per 36 stats don't say ANYTHING.

Per 36 minutes is significantly more meaningful than per game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges, and it literally becomes impossible to compare players that don't play the exact same amount of minutes.

Also, his rebounds per 36 minutes aren't awful. They are slightly below average, but not by much.

Sully is doing fine. He is a rookie. Give him time. Kid will be a stud.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2012, 11:39:02 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He doesn't play 36 minutes, therefore it is a stat of nothing.   Per 36 isn't a stat really it is a projection!   

Here is a neat fact on 36 PER.   Only 26 guys in the NBA play 36 minutes that is probably about what 10% of the league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes/sort/avgMinutes

There are all kinds of reasons this stat is useless besides it doesn't happen with regularity.  Guys get tired, guys foul out and guys are not good enough to stay on the floor long enough to get to the 36.   It's a projection, not a stat.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 11:58:19 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2012, 01:17:18 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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He doesn't play 36 minutes, therefore it is a stat of nothing.   Per 36 isn't a stat really it is a projection!   

Here is a neat fact on 36 PER.   Only 26 guys in the NBA play 36 minutes that is probably about what 10% of the league.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes/sort/avgMinutes

There are all kinds of reasons this stat is useless besides it doesn't happen with regularity.  Guys get tired, guys foul out and guys are not good enough to stay on the floor long enough to get to the 36.   It's a projection, not a stat.
It is a ratio. That has value.

No stat ever gives you a full picture. But look at someone like Harden. He was great as a 6th man, but projected out to starter minutes, his numbers might keep pace. Guys who play 40 minutes and are still taking over games (indicating they still have the legs) will have lower stats if they are given less minutes due to a top reserve that the team wants to keep involved, or if the team wants to reduce wear and tear for the playoffs.

Per minute stats are also better than per game when evaluating particular skills that a player may be good at since the reason that a great shot block gets few minutes may be that he is bad at everything else. If he got 30 min per game instead of 10, he might easily get 3x as many blocks, but the team would lose due to playing a bad player who has only 1 skill.

LLikewise, if Sully gets fewer minutes due to defensive lapses (not due to fatigue), per minute rebounds and rebound rates make sense. If he gets fewer minutes because of poor conditioning, than per minute stats could be misleading.

I am not worried about Sully's rebounding stats no matter what they are because it is well know that Sully is a good rebounder. What big ever rebounds well statistically in our system?

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2012, 01:24:40 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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PER 36 is silly because he doesn't and will not play 36 minutes.  It is a psuedo stat, plain and simple more for fantasy basketball than the real McCoy.

Fafnir, 30% of shots is not a big amount. A lot of these inside shots are fadaway turnovers too which take him out of position.   How about posting his offensive rebounding numbers if you want to use stats.   MIA is very weak inside and we have consistently failed to exploit this weakness.
We completely exploited that weakness in the ECF. Dont ou remember game 5 in Miami? It was Rondo to KG all night long.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2012, 01:25:17 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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Very glad that a day after i posted this, Sully had a breakout game.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2012, 02:00:34 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
We completely exploited that weakness in the ECF. Dont ou remember game 5 in Miami? It was Rondo to KG all night long.

Need to do it again, we didn't in the opener.

Quote
No stat ever gives you a full picture. But look at someone like Harden. He was great as a 6th man, but projected out to starter minutes, his numbers might keep pace. Guys who play 40 minutes and are still taking over games (indicating they still have the legs) will have lower stats if they are given less minutes due to a top reserve that the team wants to keep involved, or if the team wants to reduce wear and tear for the playoffs.

Most stats are actually produced in a game, in many cases that is not possible for 36 PER because most don't play 36.   That makes it a projection or tool to project which is largely speculation.

I was glad to see Sully play well too. He was overdue.

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2012, 05:07:54 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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It is totally against any basketball play ever...never shoot until someone is under the rim.....or in the paint at least....that NEVER happens in current Celtic scheme....it is all Doc...ALL players learn this in college. So when you talk about any players rebounding, you see a player either doing what the coach says, or on his way to sitting......probably why Darko is sitting, he was a classic "under the rim" on offense type player...!

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2012, 05:11:13 PM »

Offline 2short

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Sully had a solid game tonight, but his biggest problem is honestly that the Refs show him absolutely NO respect..ive seen so many ticky tack fouls called on the kid
perk his first year used to get called for 2 fouls when he went on the court

Re: Sullinger's rebounding
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2012, 05:15:47 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Sully had a solid game tonight, but his biggest problem is honestly that the Refs show him absolutely NO respect..ive seen so many ticky tack fouls called on the kid
perk his first year used to get called for 2 fouls when he went on the court

yea, and that still hasn't changed, LOL

 

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