Author Topic: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge  (Read 1691 times)

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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 04:14:52 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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The math in this article just does not add up.

The article says he has 1200 employees.

The article says he has 45 locations and an average of 35 full time employees per location.

45 x 35 = 1575

He has only 1200 employees but has 1575 full time employees??

Looking at the RREMC website, it looks like not all of his restaurants are part of his LLC, so it might be that he oversees 1,200 employees as CEO/president of RREMC Restaurants and another 400-ish at other restaurants outside of that structure.
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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 04:23:43 PM »

Online BballTim

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If you own multiple Denny's you're not allowed to complain about healthcare in America.

I take it you've never owned or managed a restaurant.


I take it you've never eaten at Denny's.

  One of the kids likes the "Moon Over My Hammy" sandwich, that's about the most noteworthy thing I can remember about eating there.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 04:27:25 PM »

Online LB3533

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Why does he have to place a surcharge if he's going to cut his employees' hours?


Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 05:08:42 PM »

Offline Redz

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If you own multiple Denny's you're not allowed to complain about healthcare in America.

I take it you've never owned or managed a restaurant.


I take it you've never eaten at Denny's.

  One of the kids likes the "Moon Over My Hammy" sandwich, that's about the most noteworthy thing I can remember about eating there.
last time i ate at Denny's was at about 3 a.m. when I was in college.  The Hash Smash Melt is still embedded in my memory (and my arteries).  It was divine.

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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2012, 10:08:39 AM »

Offline Brendan

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Why does he have to place a surcharge if he's going to cut his employees' hours?
I'd guess he's going to pay for some healthcare of critical staff, and cut hours on everyone else. The whole notion of employer responsibility for healthcare is flawed, but this story illustrates something else: all taxes on corporations trickle out to the employees and the customers.

This is one of the reasons I don't like corporate and payroll taxes: they reduce the transparency in the system. Mitt Romney famously gaffed "47% pay no income tax", but the reality is you pay for the corporate and payroll taxes corporations pay on your behalf.

A couple common sense updates that I'd love to see:

1. End employer portion of payroll taxes permanently. They create an incentive to not employ (use 1099, outsource, etc.)

2. End corporate taxes permanently. They create an incentive to locate transient functions outside the US.

3. Require all benefits to be reported as in-kind cash compensation. This will need to be the primary focus of the IRS to prevent "wage hiding" in benefits. It will also encourage more compensation in the form of cash over other benefits (I'm not sure if that's a positive or negative.)

4. Tax all personal income at the same rate (dividends, cap gains, income) - once you eliminate the corporate tax, I think this is only fair. I have some reluctance about the cap gains portion, because it discourages investment and might create unfair burdens on personal property, but I think as long as we have the home interest deduction that's a fair trade.

This would greatly reduce the corporate interest in lobbying. Yes they would still need to lobby regulations, but otherwise they'd be fine. With the creation of state and/or national healthcare exchanges the pooling problem and prior condition problems are supposed to be reduced. The employer purchasing power has eroded with the collapse of many really big firms and the move towards a higher % being employed in family, SMB, and startups.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2012, 11:35:12 AM »

Online nickagneta

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I guess Papa John's Pizza is pulling the same, "I have to raise prices to offset the cost of ACA" thing.

Here's a great article that show this type of thing is only going to mean the corporations will make larger profits because they will be raising prices higher than they need to:

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/16/papa_johns_bad_obamacare_math/
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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2012, 11:47:46 AM »

Online LooseCannon

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So, are these guys throwing public temper tantrums that have the unexpected bonus of increasing revenue or are they faking it as an excuse to raise prices?

Maybe Chik-Fil-A has inspired other restaurants to also appeal to a certain bloc of consumers.
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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 12:27:52 PM »

Offline OmarSekou

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I'm sure there are plenty of businesses who see this as an opportunity to raise their profit margins and deflect the blame. And depending on location, they might be able to draw in even more customers who are sympathetic to "small businesses being destroyed by Obama." If all goes well the only ones who will suffer are the employees. And hopefully they'll take their venom out on the government and not private industry.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 01:13:09 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I guess Papa John's Pizza is pulling the same, "I have to raise prices to offset the cost of ACA" thing.

Here's a great article that show this type of thing is only going to mean the corporations will make larger profits because they will be raising prices higher than they need to:

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/16/papa_johns_bad_obamacare_math/

I dunno if that's gonna work in Papa John's or Dennys case unless prices go up everywhere.

I mean, lets be honest, Papa John's is already overpriced, I rarley get it because at those prices I could just go get a good pizza at a local place.

This will just drive more people to other sources of fast food pizza or local pizza joints.

As for Denny's....it's denny's. Not like there aren't a massive amount of cheap greasy food chains out their.

If people don't want to pay this self imposed price increase for "Obamacare" just shop elsewhere. Those places will still be providing health care WITHOUT the extra charge so....

EDIT: also as a side note, do people realize how ridiculous this is for a Pizza Joint to pull? As one who has a pizza joint owner in my extended family, it is the most ridiculously cash cow food business around.

Example: your typical Large Pie costs, according to him, in ingredients, 2 dollars to make. And that's for one with toppings, Cheese your talking a buck and a half.

He sells larges for 11.99 I think, last time I went. Large Cheese is 9.99

So he makes 10 dollars, essentially, a pizza. Now yes, you have to factor in other costs, but 10 dollars gross is pretty good profit margin per unit.

Now Papa Johns charges 15 dollars MINIMUM for it's large pizzas (it's like 16-18 for a pizza with toppings)

you are not convincing me they pay more per pizza for those crappy prefrozen ingredients than local places pay for actually veggies, sauce and cheese. I'm quite sure that Papa's makes 10-11 dollars per pizza.

Denny's at least has wait staff, higher cost ingredients, and other costs associated with a "Dine-in" business.

Most papa Johns have limited staff to pay and don't offer dine in services. Cry me a river. 





« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 01:22:27 PM by crownsy »
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Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2012, 01:33:28 PM »

Online BballTim

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If people don't want to pay this self imposed price increase for "Obamacare" just shop elsewhere. Those places will still be providing health care WITHOUT the extra charge so....


  That's pretty wishful. Add to a company's employee costs and they aren't just going to eat the loss in profits, they'll either raise prices or cut back on the wages they pay somehow. Denny's and Papa John's might be the only ones who directly attribute their price increases to the ACA but they're obviously not the only ones that will raise their prices.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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I think the real shame here is that Papa John is using Obamacare to cover up for the real villain - Peyton Manning.

We all saw it - Papa John specifically said he'd give away ONE million pizzas for football season, which is darn generous if you ask me.  But nope, Mr Smartguy Peyton decides out of nowhere to say "Two million!"  And what can Papa John do?  He could reshoot the ad, but who's got time for that?  So instead, he has to grin and bear it while he watches his new spokesman make one million pizzas' worth of profits fly away.

Forget the "Obamacare surcharge", I want to see it called what it is: the Peyton Manning is a Smug, Ad-libbing Jerk surcharge.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2012, 02:00:45 PM »

Online BballTim

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I think the real shame here is that Papa John is using Obamacare to cover up for the real villain - Peyton Manning.

We all saw it - Papa John specifically said he'd give away ONE million pizzas for football season, which is darn generous if you ask me.  But nope, Mr Smartguy Peyton decides out of nowhere to say "Two million!"  And what can Papa John do?  He could reshoot the ad, but who's got time for that?  So instead, he has to grin and bear it while he watches his new spokesman make one million pizzas' worth of profits fly away.

Forget the "Obamacare surcharge", I want to see it called what it is: the Peyton Manning is a Smug, Ad-libbing Jerk surcharge.

  Peyton hate, now there's something both parties can get behind. It was probably cheaper to give away a million pizzas than bring Manning back in for another shoot.

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2012, 02:04:32 PM »

Offline crownsy

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If people don't want to pay this self imposed price increase for "Obamacare" just shop elsewhere. Those places will still be providing health care WITHOUT the extra charge so....


  That's pretty wishful. Add to a company's employee costs and they aren't just going to eat the loss in profits, they'll either raise prices or cut back on the wages they pay somehow. Denny's and Papa John's might be the only ones who directly attribute their price increases to the ACA but they're obviously not the only ones that will raise their prices.

Whats Wishful about it? Companies will be required to provide the health care. If a company chooses NOT to increase price, and you shop there then you are supporting a place of business that is NOT surcharging for obamacare with your consumer dollar.

If anything is "wishful" it is your assertion that no company will find it an effective strategy to maintain price and make up their "lost profits" by increasing unit sales through new business obtained from companies that choose to drive down demand and maintain static profit margins by increasing consumer cost.


Your attempt to make me seem "wishful" is built on the strawman argument that EVERY business in EVERY industry will need to increase prices to a significant degree to cover the new laws, which is a fine republican talking point, but not actually proven in reality to be anything more than that. Will some companies choose to increase prices on their customers? I'm sure they will.

but Companies have other choices as well, such as maintaining price and accepting a slightly smaller profit margin, increasing unit sales, creating increased demand, becoming more inventive in the market place, reducing production costs, ect.

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:10:22 PM by crownsy »
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2012, 03:20:21 PM »

Online BballTim

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If people don't want to pay this self imposed price increase for "Obamacare" just shop elsewhere. Those places will still be providing health care WITHOUT the extra charge so....


  That's pretty wishful. Add to a company's employee costs and they aren't just going to eat the loss in profits, they'll either raise prices or cut back on the wages they pay somehow. Denny's and Papa John's might be the only ones who directly attribute their price increases to the ACA but they're obviously not the only ones that will raise their prices.

Whats Wishful about it? Companies will be required to provide the health care. If a company chooses NOT to increase price, and you shop there then you are supporting a place of business that is NOT surcharging for obamacare with your consumer dollar.

If anything is "wishful" it is your assertion that no company will find it an effective strategy to maintain price and make up their "lost profits" by increasing unit sales through new business obtained from companies that choose to drive down demand and maintain static profit margins by increasing consumer cost.


Your attempt to make me seem "wishful" is built on the strawman argument that EVERY business in EVERY industry will need to increase prices to a significant degree to cover the new laws, which is a fine republican talking point, but not actually proven in reality to be anything more than that. Will some companies choose to increase prices on their customers? I'm sure they will.

but Companies have other choices as well, such as maintaining price and accepting a slightly smaller profit margin, increasing unit sales, creating increased demand, becoming more inventive in the market place, reducing production costs, ect.

  Obviously I didn't say that EVERY business in EVERY industry will need to increase prices to a significant degree to cover the new laws. Nice strawman though.

  I guess the assumption is that there are a multitude of companies that have ideas to increase sales or profits that they refrain from implementing until they have a rainy day?

Re: Owner of 40 restaurants installing Obamacare Surcharge
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2012, 03:31:53 PM »

Offline crownsy

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If people don't want to pay this self imposed price increase for "Obamacare" just shop elsewhere. Those places will still be providing health care WITHOUT the extra charge so....


  That's pretty wishful. Add to a company's employee costs and they aren't just going to eat the loss in profits, they'll either raise prices or cut back on the wages they pay somehow. Denny's and Papa John's might be the only ones who directly attribute their price increases to the ACA but they're obviously not the only ones that will raise their prices.

Whats Wishful about it? Companies will be required to provide the health care. If a company chooses NOT to increase price, and you shop there then you are supporting a place of business that is NOT surcharging for obamacare with your consumer dollar.

If anything is "wishful" it is your assertion that no company will find it an effective strategy to maintain price and make up their "lost profits" by increasing unit sales through new business obtained from companies that choose to drive down demand and maintain static profit margins by increasing consumer cost.


Your attempt to make me seem "wishful" is built on the strawman argument that EVERY business in EVERY industry will need to increase prices to a significant degree to cover the new laws, which is a fine republican talking point, but not actually proven in reality to be anything more than that. Will some companies choose to increase prices on their customers? I'm sure they will.

but Companies have other choices as well, such as maintaining price and accepting a slightly smaller profit margin, increasing unit sales, creating increased demand, becoming more inventive in the market place, reducing production costs, ect.

  Obviously I didn't say that EVERY business in EVERY industry will need to increase prices to a significant degree to cover the new laws. Nice strawman though.

  I guess the assumption is that there are a multitude of companies that have ideas to increase sales or profits that they refrain from implementing until they have a rainy day?

So what was wishful about my point that shopping at a place that doesn't increase prices in response to Obama care would be supporting a place of business that didn't surcharge for obama care again? Or are you just not going to address that, and try to turn it around on me instead of addressing the actual point made.

Your counter point was that I was being some wishful thinking person by asserting that some places would not raise prices, in response to the new healthcare laws, and people could support that choice by choosing to employ capitalism to reward those companies for that decision.

I'm still waiting to hear how that was such air headed, wishful thinking barring the assumption that all places have to raise prices in response to this new legislation, and thus it isn't a valid option for a consumer.

It's a clear response. If domino's for instance, doesn't increase prices and papa John's price increase drives customers from them to dominio's, what will happen to domino's profit as a whole?

You think they'll care they are making slightly less per customer if they increase unit sales by a substantial degree do to their competitor pricing themselves out of sales?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 03:43:17 PM by crownsy »
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

 

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