Author Topic: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow  (Read 3927 times)

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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 10:23:51 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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The people that went on strike were just as much at fault. They could have crossed the line and went back to work, instead they let someone else do the thinking for them. They deserve to lose their jobs.
You have presented no evidence that any of this is true.

The employees are under no obligation to accede to the demands of Hostess. This may in fact be a better long-term result for almost everyone, since Hostess is no longer going to limp along, half-dead.

Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 10:25:30 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

That doesnt address either of the issues I mentioned... will the workers accept lower wages from another company?  Are they better off getting unemployment than they would have been working at the wages hostess wanted?

Of course they will.  Because it won't be a union, it will be individuals looking for jobs. 

It is the Union leaders who messed this up, not the employees.

...although, who knows if it really was the union, or if the owners just wanted an excuse to get out.  The healthfood craze is still going strong, making hostess a declining commodity, but now they can sell the rights to the products and name, and move on to something that might not be on the downside.  The union officials just misread the situation, and didn't take this option seriously in negotiations.

Arent they part of a bigger union though, not just having to do with Hostess?  It was my understanding the bigger union will still be intact and probably will deal with whoever buys the assets
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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 10:26:04 AM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

I think pretty soon we won't see twinkies in grocery stores. I don't think that's a bad thing.

Ever look at the nutritional info on a Twinkie?  They're really not that bad by current standards.  Kinda scary that the stereotypical Bad Snack Food of a couple decades ago pales in comparison to the megasnacks of today.

I think the biggest surprise in this whole thing is that Hostess had bakers.  I always figured their foods were kinda injection-molded or something.

Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 10:27:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Little Debbies were way better any way.  Not better for you mind you, just better.
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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 10:28:43 AM »

Offline Chris

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

That doesnt address either of the issues I mentioned... will the workers accept lower wages from another company?  Are they better off getting unemployment than they would have been working at the wages hostess wanted?

Of course they will.  Because it won't be a union, it will be individuals looking for jobs. 

It is the Union leaders who messed this up, not the employees.

...although, who knows if it really was the union, or if the owners just wanted an excuse to get out.  The healthfood craze is still going strong, making hostess a declining commodity, but now they can sell the rights to the products and name, and move on to something that might not be on the downside.  The union officials just misread the situation, and didn't take this option seriously in negotiations.

Arent they part of a bigger union though, not just having to do with Hostess?  It was my understanding the bigger union will still be intact and probably will deal with whoever buys the assets

Oh, I am not saying that the workers are going to go back to work for Hostess.  I am saying they will find other jobs. 

Sorry, I thought you were suggesting that the employees now will not take any job unless they are given what the union was asking for from Hostess.

I have a feeling this is going to turn a lot of these workers against that union.

Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 10:36:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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McKee Foods (Little Debbies) and Bimbo Bakeries (Entenmann) are not unionized.  I don't believe Sara Lee and Kraft, Inc. are either.  Since those 4 entities are the most likely to buy assets from Hostess, most of the Hostess brands going forward will not be made by a unionized workforce.  Thus, the union essentially shot itself in the foot even if much of the former Hostess workers get hired on by the new entity, they will not be unionized. 

Should be interesting to watch going forward.
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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 10:58:33 AM »

Offline Cman

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Thus, the union essentially shot itself in the foot even if much of the former Hostess workers get hired on by the new entity, they will not be unionized. 


Disagree that the analysis is as simple as you are making it out to be. The unions are engaged in a repeated game. They lose on this one and Hostess management does as well. But, the unions gain bargaining power in future negotiations with other companies.
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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 11:27:29 AM »

Online BballTim

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

I think pretty soon we won't see twinkies in grocery stores. I don't think that's a bad thing.

Ever look at the nutritional info on a Twinkie?  They're really not that bad by current standards.  Kinda scary that the stereotypical Bad Snack Food of a couple decades ago pales in comparison to the megasnacks of today.

I think the biggest surprise in this whole thing is that Hostess had bakers.  I always figured their foods were kinda injection-molded or something.

  I'd guess that the people who load the flour/sugar/whatever into the machines and run the machines are called bakers.

Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 11:28:01 AM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

That doesnt address either of the issues I mentioned... will the workers accept lower wages from another company?  Are they better off getting unemployment than they would have been working at the wages hostess wanted?

Of course they will.  Because it won't be a union, it will be individuals looking for jobs. 

It is the Union leaders who messed this up, not the employees.

...although, who knows if it really was the union, or if the owners just wanted an excuse to get out.  The healthfood craze is still going strong, making hostess a declining commodity, but now they can sell the rights to the products and name, and move on to something that might not be on the downside.  The union officials just misread the situation, and didn't take this option seriously in negotiations.

The people that went on strike were just as much at fault. They could have crossed the line and went back to work, instead they let someone else do the thinking for them. They deserve to lose their jobs.

I am not arguing with that...although I think it is completely setting aside all of the psychology behind it.  There is a reason unions work so well, group thinking is a powerful thing. 

Not to mention, I am sure these workers were fed all kinds of lies by their leaders (or maybe not lies, maybe their leaders were just idiots), telling them how good it was going to be once they won.

Not for nothin, but coming down on the workers or their leaders or the union bosses and assigning anything as 'their fault' seems to be pretty premature considering the information from that article. The company obviously has managerial issues on top of any labor dispute involved here, who is to say what level of concessions from workers would've kept Hostess running?

Who is to say that the workers would've ever been able to get any of that back?

Seems to me that Hostess was sick for a long time, and this was just the way out. Maybe the strike broke their back, but if they were expecting unrealistic concessions from their workers just to stay in business, it seems like they should've expected this outcome for some time.

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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 11:34:28 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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at what cost?  Probably not what they demand to be paid.  But when you think about it, won't these workers likely be collecting more in unemployment than they would have made at reduced wages from Hostess?
Welcome to Capitalism. Sometimes, badly-run companies just need to die. Someone will make a fresh start, with lower overhead, and Twinkies will go right back to making us morbidly obese.

That doesnt address either of the issues I mentioned... will the workers accept lower wages from another company?  Are they better off getting unemployment than they would have been working at the wages hostess wanted?

Of course they will.  Because it won't be a union, it will be individuals looking for jobs. 

It is the Union leaders who messed this up, not the employees.

...although, who knows if it really was the union, or if the owners just wanted an excuse to get out.  The healthfood craze is still going strong, making hostess a declining commodity, but now they can sell the rights to the products and name, and move on to something that might not be on the downside.  The union officials just misread the situation, and didn't take this option seriously in negotiations.

The people that went on strike were just as much at fault. They could have crossed the line and went back to work, instead they let someone else do the thinking for them. They deserve to lose their jobs.

I am not arguing with that...although I think it is completely setting aside all of the psychology behind it.  There is a reason unions work so well, group thinking is a powerful thing. 

Not to mention, I am sure these workers were fed all kinds of lies by their leaders (or maybe not lies, maybe their leaders were just idiots), telling them how good it was going to be once they won.

Not for nothin, but coming down on the workers or their leaders or the union bosses and assigning anything as 'their fault' seems to be pretty premature considering the information from that article. The company obviously has managerial issues on top of any labor dispute involved here, who is to say what level of concessions from workers would've kept Hostess running?

Who is to say that the workers would've ever been able to get any of that back?

Seems to me that Hostess was sick for a long time, and this was just the way out. Maybe the strike broke their back, but if they were expecting unrealistic concessions from their workers just to stay in business, it seems like they should've expected this outcome for some time.

Your right it was premature, lets everybody calm down and have  a beer summit

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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 11:37:27 AM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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Your right it was premature, lets everybody calm down and have  a beer summit



I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if the story ends with me getting a White House Honey Porter...well okay.

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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 11:38:03 AM »

Online BballTim

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Hope someone snaps up Hostess' brands.  Except Snowballs.  Those things belong on the ash heap of history.

  The problems is, once every 3-4 years you're in the mood for one, and nothing else really hits the spot.

Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 11:42:36 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Your right it was premature, lets everybody calm down and have  a beer summit



I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if the story ends with me getting a White House Honey Porter...well okay.

Not being sarcastic, I just think a beer summit is the best way to end any premature conclusions
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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 11:43:22 AM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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Your right it was premature, lets everybody calm down and have  a beer summit



I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if the story ends with me getting a White House Honey Porter...well okay.

Not being sarcastic, I just think a beer summit is the best way to end any premature conclusions

So you're saying you're not pregnant, you just had the stomach flu?


No prob, babe! Beer summit!

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Re: Hostess Goes out of Business, Strike was the Fatal Blow
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 11:43:54 AM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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Hope someone snaps up Hostess' brands.  Except Snowballs.  Those things belong on the ash heap of history.

  The problems is, once every 3-4 years you're in the mood for one, and nothing else really hits the spot.

I can honestly say I've never craved a Snowball in my life.  This is a pretty good description of how I feel about their cupcakes, though, and once in a great while Twinkies.

 

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