Author Topic: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player  (Read 12231 times)

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Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #210 on: December 01, 2012, 12:43:15 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

His salary had no effect on our free-agent targets, he was only available to us because we had his Bird Rights, his money was not going to be used on anyone else. We can argue about a potential mid-level player next year, but that's about it (and even so, there's still a chance we that have option available as it is).

And sorry, but Jeff Green is very much a tradeable asset, and that he's making that much money helps us net premium talent if it ever becomes an option (of course other assets would need to be used).

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #211 on: December 01, 2012, 12:44:16 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

And remember, they relaxed the amount that you can take back in a trade. But with Green's deal, we boxed ourselves into a defacto "hard cap" so we have to take back the same or less than we give out in a trade. Without green's contract, we could have made a trade package that brought back a more expensive player. So yes, the contract does limit our options.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #212 on: December 01, 2012, 12:58:16 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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easily the 3-4 best player on this team and an absolute steal at 8 million. one poor game doesn't take away from his inspiring play thus far. dont forget he had 17 against his former team. off the bench too and off heart surgery.

Green has aabout 3 poor games and one good game, not even close to a steal for 9 million

I am not a Green defender or anything, but for the sake of accuracy, let's look at his game logs.

It is tough to really define what  a "good" game is versus a bad one, but I gave it a shot.

Here are his good games this season:

19 pts / 3 rebounds / 2 assists / 4 steals / 1 block (vs Portland)
17 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal / 1 block (vs OKC)
9 pts / 2 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Toronto)
16 pts / 4 rebounds / 2 assists (vs Utah)
7 pts / 5 rebounds (vs Chicago, only 15 minutes of action)
12 pts / 3 rebounds / 1 steal / 2 blocks (vs Milwaukee)
11 pts / 2 rebounds / 1 steal (vs Washington)
11 pts / 1 rebound / 2 steals / 1 block (vs. Milwaukee)

So that's 8 good games by my fairly arbitrary standards. In these 8 games, he is averaging:

12.75 pts / 2.75 rebounds / .75 assists / 1.125 steals / .625 blocks

In his other 8 games, the bad ones, he is averaging

4 pts / 2.4 rebounds / .75 assists / .125 steals / .375 blocks

The Celtics are 7-1 in Jeff's good games, and 2-6 in his bad games.


Basically this proves the controversy , when he plays up to his potiential , the C's have a very good chance of winning most games , when he takes the night off , the Celtics really struggle. He was bought in to provide a significant "Punch" on  offense to help offset Pierces aging body and output.   

AS important as alot of other players are,  so is Green ...without playing well...this team is gonna be hard pressed to win alot of games.

We gotta "HOPE" he continues to play well...if not his salary is too high for only playing well 50% of the time.  Danny will trade him , and try and get more value from another player.

The problem is that we shouldn't have to rely on Green to win games, when he plays well is a bonus, a bonus I'd like to see being consistent, but not a necessity. That apparently we're needing his production to win games is more troubling to me than whether Green is playing well or not. This team has a lot of good and productive players, and that we're struggling is a sign of something broken in the system that needs fixing.
At that salary, he should be relied on.  He is supposed to be a major piece, not a minimum salary guy who occasionally plays a role.

On another note, it might be sacreligious to say on this blog, but I think Green is more talented than Reggie Lewis, as far as physical tools and certain offensive skills.  If Green had Lewis' mind and motor he would be lethal.

Salary is completely irrelevant. We had money, he was the best choice for the price, we spent it.
Salary is very relevant. Might not be relevant in baseball but definitely in basketball with the cap.Also, if you overpay a player, it'll be almost impossible to move him.

And remember, they relaxed the amount that you can take back in a trade. But with Green's deal, we boxed ourselves into a defacto "hard cap" so we have to take back the same or less than we give out in a trade. Without green's contract, we could have made a trade package that brought back a more expensive player. So yes, the contract does limit our options.

If you're building a roster for a championship run, the concern is not going to be about a mid-season trade.

Regardless, with or without the hard cap our trading assets and our trading targets are very slim. In just about any scenario we'd have to send quite a few assets away to net us a player who would improve this team, at least now we have more options to fill holes in our roster. Find me a player we could have with X package (with the assumption that there's no hard cap), and I'll reconsider. But I'm not seeing any that would make us stronger.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #213 on: December 01, 2012, 06:14:47 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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I have let these negative threads influence me, but you are wrong and so was I.  Everyone expects Jeff Green to bounce back as if from a pulled muscle.  The man had heart surgery.  Like with KG knee a few years ago (which was said to take a full year), I don't think he will be back at full strenght for a while yet.  He is lucky to be playing at all, and most of us would still be winded just walking to the mailbox.  He is really coming along well.

The question isn't if he is talented.  He is.  The question is, is it "heart" or is it lack of stamina that is holding him back right now.  I choose to believe that it is lack of stamina, and that further recuperation and conditioning will take care of that.  He has shown signs of moving forward on the effort level, but I am not sure his body will allow full, all out effort just yet...maybe for short stints.  Jeff did not have a splinter removed.  Wilcox did not have a splinter removed.  They had heart surgery and will have to work through inevitable recuperation and conditioning before they are at full strength.  It doesn't happen overnight.

I hope, with conditioning, that effort  like last night will become the norm.
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