Author Topic: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player  (Read 10465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11281
  • Tommy Points: 1085
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2012, 10:03:01 PM »
My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.

This is true.  At the same time, we're spending roughly 1/6th of the cap on Jeff Green.  That's not the recipe for maintaining flexibility going forward, unless he breaks out.

I think overpaying role players is the quickest way to salary cap hell in the NBA.  Right now, the concern of many is that Jeff Green might be just that type of role player.

What flexibility are we speaking of? With the new CBA, and the moves we had to make to keep us in not only in contention, but at a chance at the championship, already threw any flexibility we could've had out of the window, for at least 3 years.

So no, Green's contract has little impact on flexibility. In fact, the way we're positioned at the moment, we have a roster that should be able to compete at a high level for the next few seasons, and after that's done, we'll actually have a lot of flexibility going forward... and that's without mentioning that we have some very tradeable assets when we need to.

As is, I think Ainge did a great job at keeping our roster in championship contention without actually breaking our flexibility with outrageous contracts. And Green's is not outrageous regardless of how we may feel about him being overpaid or not.

Offline Celtics18

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7558
  • Tommy Points: 784
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2012, 10:04:09 PM »
My point is that folks are acting like he's being paid superstar money.  That's simply not the case.  He's being paid like a really good role player.  I just think people should keep that in mind when reacting to his "enormous" contract.

This is true.  At the same time, we're spending roughly 1/6th of the cap on Jeff Green.  That's not the recipe for maintaining flexibility going forward, unless he breaks out.

I think overpaying role players is the quickest way to salary cap hell in the NBA.  Right now, the concern of many is that Jeff Green might be just that type of role player.

It's a gamble, but at some point you have to take some.  When Rondo got signed to his contract that was a gamble, as well.  At the time, many actually thought Danny was being foolish to throw that kind of money at Rondo. 

It could backfire, but I think it's way too early to call Jeff Green's contract an albatross.
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers  DKC General Manager

Kendall Marshall/Dennis Schroeder/Marquis Teague/Ray McCallum
Evan Turner/Roger Mason Jr./Jason Richardson(injured)
Thaddeus Young/Victor Claver/Otto Porter
Spencer Hawes/Darrell Arthur/Erik Murphy
Timofey Mozgov/Lavoy Allen

Online triboy16f

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4628
  • Tommy Points: 155
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2012, 10:13:57 PM »
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.

Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

Offline Kuberski1

  • Avery Bradley
  • Posts: 298
  • Tommy Points: 26
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2012, 11:24:42 PM »
I don't think there's any question that Danny overpaid for Green, at least judging from what we have seen thus far.  It came as a surprise to almost everyone when the details of the contract came out....5-6M a year was what was rumored from memory, and that sounds about right.   Unfortunately, the contract seems to raise expectations of play that he will have a hard time achieving, and could be one of the reasons he tends to force things at times.

Money aside, I do think he can help us - his play against Mil and Utah were definitely factors in those wins.   He can also help Doc manage Pierce's minutes to 30-ish a game, rather than last year's 34....that should help come playoff time.  He will likely never live up to his contract, and he is not the next James Worthy, but he if he continues to play like he has the last few games, he will contribute.

Offline Celts Fan 92

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1423
  • Tommy Points: 122
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2012, 01:28:05 AM »
Jeff Green is garbage, his contract is garbage, and Danny Ainge is a garbage GM.

I've been saying that the Perk trade was awful since the day it was made, and I think time has vindicated me.

The only thing good about him is that he pretty much makes statheads look like geniuses when they determined (a long time ago) that he sucked, despite all of the scouts/pundits/coaches/fans saying how much "potential" he had.

Jeff Green has two issues. 1) he plays consistently timid and sometimes with swagger 2) he is a tweener for the better or the worse. Not too tall , strong, exceptional wingspan be a PF , and not too quick nor can't shoot too great to be a sf. Danny Ainge def messed up on this one. If all else, he paid him 2 to 3 million too much a year.

Honestly i rather see Kris Joseph out there now backing up Pierce. He doesn't have all the tools like Green but he has the right tools to play SF better.  Looks like a young pierce and could learn alot from the master himself.

If celtics are thinking of making a big move on trade deadline, I would use Jeff Green as the #1 bait. We are still hurting bad in the rebounding department. Two ideas

1) To Brooklyn for Reggie Evans + 1st round pick
2) To Utah with 1st round pick, Melo for Al Jefferson.



not only do da contracts not match but why da hell would u wanna trade a 16ppg career scorer for an offensively challenged dude like Reggie Evans? yeen gotta like Jeff Green but trade proposals like dis are unbelievable mane lol

Offline D.o.s.

  • Antoine Walker
  • *****
  • Posts: 5543
  • Tommy Points: 339
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2012, 02:11:50 AM »
Even though his grammar makes my eyes bleed, I agree with Celts Fan 92.

No way you trade Jeff Green for Reggie Evans and a late first rounder.
Michael Jordan: It's a man's game, and you can't play.
 Bill Murray: It's 'cause I'm white, isn't it?
Michael Jordan: No. Larry's white, so what?
Bill Murray: Larry's not white. Larry's clear.

not sure the point of this thread.

Online triboy16f

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4628
  • Tommy Points: 155
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2012, 02:52:35 AM »
Reggie Evans this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   11 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   
Total Rebounds           13 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   

Total high ever: 22 vs. Philadelphia 11/24/10
- has pulled down 19, 18, 17, 16, 13-15 several times

Jeff Green this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   5 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   
Total Rebounds           6 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   

Total high ever : 15
- has not pulled alot of games over 8 or 9 rebounds


So 6 or 13, you choose. Evans also plays quite a bit less of minutes per game. For those doubters, you can't understand how important rebounding can be. We rebound say 3-4 more every game this year and we be like 6-2 , instead of like 5-4. It will be an incredibly tough year without a  good rebounder/inside presence guy.  Jeff Greens 6 or 7 points a game can be made up though. I'm not stating they are 1 on 1 the same calibre players. So whatever package we get for Evans + extras for Jeff Green, i would be up for that.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:59:40 AM by triboy16f »
Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

Offline chambers

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3081
  • Tommy Points: 331
  • Banner 18...all that matters.
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2012, 03:00:52 AM »
Reggie Evans this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   11 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   
Total Rebounds           13 vs. Toronto 11/03/12   

Total high ever: 22 vs. Philadelphia 11/24/10
- has pulled down 19, 18, 17, 16, 13-15 several times

Jeff Green this year highs in rebounding so far

Defensive Rebounds   5 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   
Total Rebounds           6 @ Brooklyn 11/15/12   

Total high ever : 15
- has not pulled alot of games over 8 or 9 rebounds


So 6 or 13, you choose. Evans also plays quite a bit less of minutes per game. For those doubters, you can't understand how important rebounding can be. We rebound say 3-4 more every game this year and we be like 6-2 , instead of like 5-4. It will be an incredibly tough year without a  good rebounder/inside presence guy.  Jeff Greens 6 or 7 points a game can be made up though. I'm not stating they are 1 on 1 the same calibre players. So whatever package we get for Evans + extras for Jeff Green, i would be up for that. Again not a fan of this timid player

That's cool bro, but no one in the NBA gives up Jeff Green after 6 games for Reggie Evans. Again, he isn't far out of heart surgery.
Did you see him play for OKC? Go watch some old vids.
I'll repeat, NO ONE in the NBA gives up Jeff Green for Reggie Evans lol, that's just insulting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?b=1&v=UWlJiz1X8q0

"Game 4: 4 minutes 28 seconds 87-81
Game 5:2 minutes 28 seconds 84-81
These are scores in the 4th period and time left in Games 4 and 5 in 2011 versus the Heat. The Celtics were ahead in both games and Rondo was hurt, playing with one arm."  -Pearl 131  So close, yet so far.

Offline D.o.s.

  • Antoine Walker
  • *****
  • Posts: 5543
  • Tommy Points: 339
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2012, 03:23:24 AM »
If I'm doing some wishful thinking for a rebounder, I want Kenneth Faried (who I was so excited for when he almost fell to us in 2011. And then Denver swooped in).

Anyway, Reggie Evans is 32, has absolutely no offensive game, doesn't play defense, can't do anything with the ball except grab it (especially when it's attached to Chris Kaman... youtube it), and, as a personal aside...

He is indisputably and, unequivocally one of the most transparent, painful, and unrepentant floppers in the NBA today. He was the worst flopper on FLOP CITY last year. They should give out the Reggie Evans Memorial Shame trophy for flopping. It could be a fake Reggie Evans beard that makes you collapse in a heap whenever you almost come into contact with anything.

So, yeah, he can rebound. Whatever. Someone's got to get the boards on that Nets team, after all.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 03:28:35 AM by D.o.s. »
Michael Jordan: It's a man's game, and you can't play.
 Bill Murray: It's 'cause I'm white, isn't it?
Michael Jordan: No. Larry's white, so what?
Bill Murray: Larry's not white. Larry's clear.

not sure the point of this thread.

Offline mctyson

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1806
  • Tommy Points: 131
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2012, 07:34:25 AM »
People are flipping out about the cost of Greens contract.  I have to ask:  WHY?  Would he be any better of a player if he was making $7M a year?

The main reason NBA analysts were criticizing the deal was the fact that Green was coming off of a major, major injury. And they were criticizing the years more than the $$.  All of us should remember that before Green went down last year, he was making the exact same amount he is this year.

I am sure Green's agent argued that point during the salary negotiations. 

Let's also remember that Green was locked up for the LONG HAUL.  Paul Pierce will not be starting for us forever.  In fact, he could be done after this year.  Who is our starting SF if that happens?  Jeff Green. 

But the biggest issue I want to counter - getting back to the contract and the $$ - is that the Green signing has done something to prevent Danny from assembling the roster he wanted to build for this year.  Everyone going into this season thought we were at least a deeper team than last year, probably a better team too.  Isn't that the goal year-in, year-out?  Get as much talent as possible on your roster, and go from there?  No one on this board would argue that Green isn't talented.  He is still only 25 years old.  Just getting him on your roster is a bonus, and if you have to pay $1-2M more to do that, then that's what you do in professional sports.

I will only accept criticisms of the contract when and if it prevents the Celtics from acquiring a much-needed player down the road.  And NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REGGIE EVANS.  I am talking about an NBA All-Star caliber player.  I will not complain if the extra $1-2M per year that people on this board seem to think he is not worth winds up costing us another Darko, Sasha, Collins, Marquise Daniels, Troy Murphy, Name Your End of the Bench Guy.  I will not complain even if it costs us a Pietrus or Barbosa.  Those guys do NOT win you championships.  Your top 7 players do.  And like it or not, Green would be in the top 7 on almost every NBA roster.  Most of those guys make good $$$.  That's just the way it is.

Offline Mr Green

  • Avery Bradley
  • Posts: 273
  • Tommy Points: 27
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2012, 07:45:20 AM »
Poor guy hasn't been given a fair opportunity yet, the season has only just started a couple of weeks ago.

At least wait until after the all star break before forming a mob and chasing him out of Beantown with pitchforks.

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2012, 08:09:07 AM »
His contract is 4, 1 longer than Garnett and a bunch of others.

If a team wants a 1 year expiring contract, would they not trade for JG?

Offline cman88

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2530
  • Tommy Points: 192
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2012, 08:30:48 AM »
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.


I think Green is going to be just fine with us...you saw what he could do against the Jazz...his shot didnt fall(and he didnt get the calls) against brooklyn...but they will.

Lee hasnt exactly been guns blazing out there either(other than the last game)

but these are guys who average double digits in their careers...so they will pick it up.

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22252
  • Tommy Points: -29454
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2012, 08:38:41 AM »
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11281
  • Tommy Points: 1085
Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2012, 08:59:16 AM »
another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog