Author Topic: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player  (Read 26810 times)

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Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2012, 03:20:02 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2012, 03:22:56 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Mid-game over-reaction threads rarely turn out well for the OP, right?

Mid-game reaction ??

the OP's opinion is based on the two seasons Green has been able to play with the Celts. if you think he is bad now (which he is), just wait for the playoffs when the games count even more.

Jeff Green is the complete opposite of mentally or physically tough - he doesn't have to be an enforcer, he's a finesse style player, fine. but that doesn't mean he should shy away from contact and not hold his ground, especially close to the basket.

that trade continues to haunt the Celtics - Danny just had to try to prove how clever he was. he's like a compulsive gambler who hadn't made a bet in a long time when he dealt our championship center away two years ago. things were going along a little too smoothly for Danny (we were leading the East at the time, probably headed to the finals with payback in our hearts) - he couldn't take it, so he had to make a big trade to stir some drama up. that's how those people are. laugh if you want, but look at Danny's impulsive trade-o-matic history if you think i'm over-analyzing.
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Re: $9million is not really a disastrous contract at all
« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2012, 03:24:19 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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the way people talk about green's contract you might think he was being paid all-star money.

fans may point to Rajon Rondo/Garnetts contracts to that..but they are vastly UNDERPAID in the grand scheme of things..Rondo would probably demand a max contract with his talent level...and Garnett took a discount to stay with his $11million

While green may be in somewhat of a slump right now, hes a career 13ppg player, and compared to other Small forwards with similar Stats i'm not seeing where it is outrageous.

Gerald wallace - $10million
Andrei Kirilenko - $9.77 million
Nicholas Batum - $10.8 million

Both Wallace and Batum are considerably better than Green in every meaningful area of the game. Kirlilenko's contract is 2 years and at this point I would still much rather have him than Green.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2012, 03:24:35 PM »

Offline cman88

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I would be interested to know the minutes/role batum is playing vs. green though...

right now, Green is playing BEHIND paul pierce and is taking around 6-7 shots a game...you up those shots, the stats go up.

its the same argument I see people say with other PG's vs Rondo.."well they score more than him!" ya, but they also take more shots

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2012, 03:26:03 PM »

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

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another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #110 on: November 17, 2012, 03:29:50 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Only in Celticsblog, we win by 18 and we're hung up on talking trash about a guy who was +15 for the game on 4-6 shooting for 9 points.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #111 on: November 17, 2012, 03:31:00 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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I would be interested to know the minutes/role batum is playing vs. green though...

right now, Green is playing BEHIND paul pierce and is taking around 6-7 shots a game...you up those shots, the stats go up.

its the same argument I see people say with other PG's vs Rondo.."well they score more than him!" ya, but they also take more shots

Good players find a way to be effective despite things like this. If Green is taking less shots against lesser competition his fg% should be much higher.

Nicholas Batum's percentages:

FG%: .482   
3P%: .395,

Green:
FG%: .42

Not to mention Batum was overpaid for his defense (1.8 blks, 2.3 steals) Jeff Green is paid for his offense. So far Batum is averaging twice as much while being more efficient in every area.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #112 on: November 17, 2012, 03:34:31 PM »

Offline cman88

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just a question for the anti-green crowd, what do you guys exactly want Green to average ppg wise to consider his contract a good one?

if he ends up averaging 12ppg this year, is that solid enough? im not saying he has lived up to his contract or even played well so far this year....hes obviously slumping but seems to be headed in the right direction.

but is it 20-25ppg?? because given his role with the celtics, playing 20-25minutes off the bench taking 6-7 shots I think its unrealistic to expect that.

because all these guys are using as a contrast, Kirilenko/batum etc.  im not sure if they would average more than 12ppg playing a similar role


Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #113 on: November 17, 2012, 03:35:03 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius

That's a great way to build a championship team lets compare ourselves to bottom dwelling teams that've made worse decisions so we can feel good about our own situation.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #114 on: November 17, 2012, 03:39:10 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

Here's the list:

Jeff Green   8,375,000
Shawn Marion   8,396,364
Devin Harris   8,500,000
Rodney Stuckey   8,500,000
Mo Williams   8,500,000
Jameer Nelson   8,600,000
Paul Millsap   8,603,633
Ryan Anderson   8,700,000
Steve Nash   8,900,000
Andris Biedrins   9,000,000
Danilo Gallinari   9,439,000
Tim Duncan   9,638,554
Gerald Wallace   9,682,435
Andrei Kirilenko   9,779,349
JaVale McGee   10,000,000
David West   10,000,000
Andrea Bargnani   10,000,000
Stephen Jackson   10,059,750
Richard Jefferson   10,164,000
DeAndre Jordan   10,532,977
Jose Calderon   10,561,982
Nicolas Batum   10,825,000
Corey Maggette   10,924,138
Rajon Rondo   11,000,000
Monta Ellis   11,000,000
Joakim Noah   11,300,000
Kevin Garnett   11,566,265
Hidayet Turkoglu   11,815,850
Al Horford   12,000,000
Kris Humphries   12,000,000
Ben Gordon   12,400,000
Kevin Martin   12,439,675
Tony Parker   12,500,000
David Lee   12,744,000
Andrew Bogut   13,000,000
Nene   13,000,000
Danny Granger   13,058,606
Josh Smith   13,200,000
Luol Deng   13,305,000
Emeka Okafor   13,490,000
LaMarcus Aldridge   13,500,000
Tyson Chandler   13,604,188
Brook Lopez   13,668,750
Roy Hibbert   13,668,750
Kevin Love   13,668,750
Eric Gordon   13,668,750
Russell Westbrook   13,668,750
(Rashard Lewis)   13,699,551
Marc Gasol   13,891,359
Emanuel Ginobili   14,107,491
Andre Iguodala   14,968,250
Carlos Boozer   15,000,000
Al Jefferson   15,000,000
Derrick Rose   16,402,552
Rudy Gay   16,460,538
Zach Randolph   16,500,000
Kevin Durant   16,669,629
Paul Pierce   16,790,345
Andrew Bynum    16,889,000
Deron Williams   17,177,795
Dwyane Wade   17,182,000
Chris Bosh   17,545,000
LeBron James   17,545,000
Chris Paul   17,779,458
Pau Gasol   19,000,000
Dwight Howard   19,536,360
Joe Johnson   19,752,645
Amar'e Stoudemire   19,948,799
Carmelo Anthony   20,463,024
Dirk Nowitzki   20,907,128
Kobe Bryant   27,849,149


i get Devin Harris, Maggette, Richard jefferson, stuckey, Turkoglu

With considerations for Dirk, Nash, Nene, Granger, Bogut, Love, Eric gordon, Rose, Bynum, Amare who are all clearly substantially better but injured.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2012, 03:39:39 PM »

Offline crownsy

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another thing people forget is, say we DONT sign jeff green, its not like we would then have $9million dollars to allocate somewhere else...we are/were cap strapped before signing him with what we could do.

that is why Danny looked to re-sign most of his players...and we had to trade to get Courtney Lee.

This is true.  If we hadn't signed Green, he would have left for nothing, and we couldn't refill his salary slot this season. 

The question, then, is whether it is better to overpay a player (who will then take up a disproportionate amount of the cap in future seasons, or let him go for no compensation.

Which future seasons?

The three seasons after this one. 

At this level of play, there's no question that Green's cap hit is disproportionate to his production.
Theres probably 30 players on a higher salary who've started out the season worse than him.

There's no way there are 30 players and the few that have worse contracts are on losing teams. Nicholas Batum who a lot of people on this board were saying had a much worse contract than Green is having a career year with better stats and efficiency than Green across the board while playing much better defense. It just goes to show how fans overrate their scrub players. Go to any other fan forum and I can guarantee that they want nothing to do with Jeff Green and his contract.
worse relative to whats expected of them Im not talking about whose scoring less points per game genius

That's a great way to build a championship team lets compare ourselves to bottom dwelling teams that've made worse decisions so we can feel good about our own situation.

So what veteran minimum player did you want at the SF spot instead of Green who would be getting us 9-12 points a night as he's doing and playing pretty solid defense?

I'll wait.

Because if we haden't spent the money on his contract, we would have only had enough left offer the veteran minimum.

also, desipte people's assertions, isn't a terrible contract based on what SF's with JG's skill set make, nor is it anything like untradeable.
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Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #116 on: November 17, 2012, 03:43:09 PM »

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

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You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?


Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #117 on: November 17, 2012, 03:48:46 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #118 on: November 17, 2012, 03:58:47 PM »

Offline cman88

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You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.


no ones yet to answer my question, at what point do you say green is playing good?

his 12pt game against the bucks wasnt good enough, nor was his 16point game against utah, or his 9point game today on 4/6 shooting where he was +15

how many points does green need to score before you say 'he had a good game"

not saying he has been great, but he's clearly on the right track..and in building a championship team you want the most talent on there..clearly Green>> vet min player

Re: I think Jeff Green is a HORRIBLE BB player
« Reply #119 on: November 17, 2012, 04:05:38 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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You kids honestly know zero about the dude other than the numbers you see on wikipedia... But do ya even know how to read them??? He had a very good season in 2011 despite being traded halfway through and not having any experience playing with the roster, and not to mention a career high in FG%.  Perkins was already playing poorly and after being traded he played significantly worse despite playing the same amount of minutes.  The dude had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic and was a plane crash that Danny saw coming. So how was picking up a high IQ and fantastically athletic scorer who has proved he can put up good numbers despite playing out of position a poor choice?

Did you actually watch him play after he was traded to the Celtics? I base my opinion on Green on what I see in games but since I can't exactly post a game and point out his poor play I feel like stats are the most objective way to show this.

If a player plays well we will give him props but he's playing like crap and has been since he's been on the celtics. I don't get why players like Big Baby get so much heat for playing poorly but with Jeff Green people keep giving him excuse after excuse for his poor play.


no ones yet to answer my question, at what point do you say green is playing good?

his 12pt game against the bucks wasnt good enough, nor was his 16point game against utah, or his 9point game today on 4/6 shooting where he was +15

how many points does green need to score before you say 'he had a good game"

not saying he has been great, but he's clearly on the right track..and in building a championship team you want the most talent on there..clearly Green>> vet min player

Be a better defender consistently. Get more rebounds. Do more on offense than stand around and shoot contested jumpers. I'll be ecstatic if he could bring his PPG to 12 and play a sort of Carl Landry role off the bench.