Author Topic: Are the Knicks serious?  (Read 18927 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2012, 11:21:55 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36954
  • Tommy Points: 1874
Oh, meant to post this here and not in the general regular season thread.

Quote
The Knicks are shooting freakishly well from three point range.

One of three teams to be shooting over 40% from three (only 8 other teams have done this over the course of a full season) and are leading the league in both attempts and makes. If they did keep up this three point barrage, the Knicks would become the 9th team to shoot over 40% from three but would do so while taking almost 50% more attempts than every other team on the list.



The vast majority of their success right now is coming from that unbelievable shooting from that three point spot + forcing turnovers (4th) and avoiding turnovers themselves (1st) at a high clip. The rest of their indicators are all fairly underwhelming:

(1) Possession creation = neutral = out-rebounded frequently and badly but have a very positive turnover differential that gets them to neutral.

(2) 23rd in defensive eFG%, 12th in defensive reb%, 13th in defensive efficiency

(3) Carmelo Anthony is currently their only dependable / prolific shot creator.  Nobody else on the team is even scoring 15ppg. The second leading scorer is Raymond Felton who has been a choke artist in the playoffs in the past. Then JR Smith (erratic) and Tyson Chandler who can't make a shot outside of five feet. They don't have enough creators to generate quality shot attempts consistently in tough playoff series.




Once Amare and Shumpert come back, I think the Knicks hot-shooting will slow down and their turnovers will increase considerably.

They'll lose some of their spacing offensively and won't be able to play as small lineup wise as they have done (two PGs, two perimeter orientated forwards, only one big). Amare will force them into more conventional lineups. Floor will shrink. Turnovers will increase. Amare will add some shot-creation but I think the Knicks will lose more offensively with his return than they gain due to their chemistry / personnel issues. Shumpert is just plain inefficient and erratic offensively.

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2012, 11:41:08 PM »

Online mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7511
  • Tommy Points: 1953
Is Amare really that much worse of a shooter than Ronnie Brewer?

Edit:  The few games I've seen of them I thought they were an amazing pick and roll team (Chandler, Prigioni, Kidd, Melo, even Felton has been good).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:47:35 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2012, 08:56:58 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24641
  • Tommy Points: 444
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
well they pretty much destroy Miami yesterday so I will say theyre a dangerous team

p.s. maybe destroy was a little over the top but i was drunk yesterday so dont blame me
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2012, 09:10:57 AM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8269
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Intensity!!!
They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2012, 09:13:33 AM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12352
  • Tommy Points: 3
They look good so far this year.  That said, they're only 4 games ahead of Boston. A little early to write the book on this season, for any team.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2012, 09:21:47 AM »

Online slamtheking

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18763
  • Tommy Points: 8853
I'm trying to put a positive spin on the improvements in NJ, NY and Philly this year. I'm hoping that the C's will finally figure out that they can't coast all year that they develop a sense of urgency to get it together long before the playoffs come around

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2012, 09:22:12 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
  • Tommy Points: 80
I see the same thing i did when we matched up against them in preseason...Better than us right now even with all the dreaded excuse of "roster turnover" still waiting on  shumpert and stoudemire too

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 09:27:56 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2012, 09:33:14 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
  • Tommy Points: 80
So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha


Uh yes? Did derrick rose mvp and teams best record prove he was better than lebron? Carmelo is great but he has a ton of catching up to do individual and teamwise to be anywhere near lebron....also didn't help his team blew out the heat while he sat on the bench with a hurt finger.
lebron just came off a league mvp, dominant playoff run, finals mvp and leading the Usa to gold...the same team carmelo was a role player on.

Are you a Syracuse alum or something?

Better than pierce? Ok

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 09:35:36 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28461
  • Tommy Points: 1147
So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.

Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.

The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2012, 09:58:34 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.

Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.

The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.

Nah don't use that excuse
Because whenever there is a debate on who is better Lebron or Carmelo, what they always bring up?
Lebron's MVP trophies

Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2012, 10:13:10 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28461
  • Tommy Points: 1147
Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
Except he's not a better scorer.

LeBron scores more points, scores those points more efficiently (better eFG% and TS%). Besides scoring LeBron is a better defender, a better rebounder, and a far better passer.

All you're left with is the idea that Carmelo is a better "clutch" (however you choose to define it I'm guessing subjectively) player, and Carmelo is a slightly better three point shooter and free throw shooter.

Head to Head LeBron has also outperformed Carmelo (team record is essentially even 11-10):

http://bkref.com/tiny/TsgDN

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2012, 10:24:00 AM »

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3171
  • Tommy Points: 404
So if the Knicks end up having the better record than the Heat, and Carmelo becomes the MVP, people would still say Lebron is better than Carmelo? Hahahahaha
Yes.

Even this year in which Carmelo seems to be playing the best of his career LeBron has been better.

The MVP isn't about who's the best player, its about the best storyline.

Nah don't use that excuse
Because whenever there is a debate on who is better Lebron or Carmelo, what they always bring up?
Lebron's MVP trophies

Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron

Melo is no where near Lebron James in any way except he has more confidence in late game situations.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2012, 10:31:00 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
Carmelo is a better scorer, shooter, clutch player, and their defense is about even. The only thing held against Carmelo was that he didn't have an MVP and he only passed the 1st round once. Well no one is talking about teams vs teams. When Carmelo did have a championship level team, he did succeed. I'm talking about player vs player. Head to head Carmelo always destroys Lebron
Except he's not a better scorer.

LeBron scores more points, scores those points more efficiently (better eFG% and TS%). Besides scoring LeBron is a better defender, a better rebounder, and a far better passer.

All you're left with is the idea that Carmelo is a better "clutch" (however you choose to define it I'm guessing subjectively) player, and Carmelo is a slightly better three point shooter and free throw shooter.

Head to Head LeBron has also outperformed Carmelo (team record is essentially even 11-10):

http://bkref.com/tiny/TsgDN

I agree with you on the head to head. But you know those stats are for how many Lebron scored whether Carmelo guarded him or not, right? Someone posted what other point guards scored against Rondo to try to prove Rondo was a bad defender, and everyone said thats not a good way to judge that

But the stats doesn't mean anything when you talking about SCORING ABILITY. Its obvious Carmelo is better

Post moves in the paint: Carmelo is better
3 point shot: Carmelo is better
17 ft shot: Carmelo is better
One on one: Carmelo is better
Cutting: Lebron

You can look in at stats all day. But we all know Carmelo is a better 4th quarter clutch scorer
And for Lebron's overrated defense, tell Jason Terry how good Lebron's defense was in the 2011 NBA Finals

Re: Are the Knicks serious?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2012, 10:36:20 AM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36954
  • Tommy Points: 1874
They're better then us presently. And they have more potential too. Bad matchup for us also. I want no part of them in a 7 game series.
Why is New York a bad matchup for Boston?