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Trade Idea for Pau
« on: November 14, 2012, 01:06:53 PM »

Offline snively

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With the D'Antoni hiring, I'm almost positive the Lakers are going to be aggressive in exploring Pau trades to add speed, athleticism and shooting to their core. Pau is just too slow/post-oriented to play the 4 effectively in D'Antoni's offense, especially alongside a plodder like Artest at the 3.  Further, he's their only valuable asset after the Nash/Kobe/Howard trio (which isn't going anywhere), so he's the only guy they can use to fill the many gaps in the roster outside of that trio.

Thus, I think the Lakers might be inclined to trade quality for quantity with Pau, and the Celtics might be one of their best partners.

We have an abundance of speedy, athletic and sharp-shooting role players but a glaring absence of quality size.

Thus, I would propose the following deal: Barbosa, Courtney Lee, Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Darko Milicic and future picks to the Lakers for Pau, Devin Ebanks and Jodie Meeks.

Why for the Lakers: Right now they might have one of the worst collections of 5th-10th men in the league, and certainly one of the worst fitting groups of players for D'Antoni's offense.  This trade would give them one of the best - Barbosa's a proven dynamo playing behind Nash and with D'Antoni.  Courtney Lee is a very similar player to Raja Bell, and a sizeable upgrade on Jodie Meeks as a Kobe back-up and defensive option on those quick guards that give the Lakers problems.  Jeff Green's speed/range/versatility gives D'Antoni his much-needed swing forward that will allow him to force the pace and space the floor.  Brandon Bass' elite mid-range shooting will provide some more space for the pick and roll, give Nash and Kobe a  pick and pop option, and put some more speed on the floor.  Darko gives them an extra big body to throw out there when Dwight's in foul trouble.  The future picks replenish their asset pantry after dumping so many picks in their deals over the last 12 months.

Why for Boston: we turn our surplus of quality role players (Lee and Barbosa in particular might not even play when Bradley comes back) into the missing piece, AKA an all-star caliber 7-footer to play beside and behind KG. I'd want to add a quick defensive 4 to the roster to give us a small-ball option (neither Sully nor Wilcox is suited to guard a perimeter guy when KG rests), but that shouldn't be too hard: Kenyon Martin is still unsigned, and guys like Dante Cunningham or Matt Barnes wouldn't be too expensive to acquire in a trade.

There are number of reasons to believe the Lakers wouldn't pull the trigger on this trade - they want to preserve cap flexibility for 2014, they want a bigger name in return for Pau - but with the paucity of good trading partners out there, I think it might be in the realm of possibility.
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 02:10:22 PM »

Offline Who

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 02:14:55 PM »

Online pearljammer10

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Lakers get a decent return with lee green and bass but for gasoline I bet they can do better. My first thought is a gasol for josh smith trade might work for them. I like the idea of getting gasol but I'm not sure if its our best option, it takes away a good amount of depth for us.

Rondo/Meeks?
Bradley/terry
Pierce/ebanks?
Pau/sully
Kg/Wilcox.

Gives us a great starting five but not very much depth at all
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PG:Rondo/Miller/Udrih/Dinwiddle
SG:Afflalo/Williams/Delladova
SF:Green/Young
PF:Hill/Powell
C:Hibbert/Nurcik/Bynum

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 02:15:58 PM »

Offline Chris

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Exactly.  The Lakers are going to get much more enticing offers than that.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 02:29:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.
Pierce/KG/Rondo are the only pieces that would really interest LA in a blockbuster.

Probably not even Rondo with D'Antoni there, though the front office would be thinking about it.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 02:34:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I fully support a trade for Pau that doesn't involve KG, Pierce or Rondo.  He'd be huge for us.  I still see Pau as maybe the 3rd most talented big man in the game.

Simmons had a tweet that his nightmare was the Lakers hiring D'Antoni and trading Pau for Josh Smith.  If that happened, I'd try hard to put together a package of young players (Bradley?  Sullinger?) to nab Pau from Atlanta.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 03:02:20 PM »

Offline snively

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Exactly.  The Lakers are going to get much more enticing offers than that.

You might be right.  I couldn't think of any earlier, but I'll run through the league.
 
Atlanta - Josh Smith/Kyle Korver/Devin Harris (blows my offer out of the water, but why would Atlanta trade Smith for Pau after dumping JJ)
Brooklyn - would they even make an offer with Brook signed up?
Charlotte - too far away to give up anything of value for Pau
Chicago - Boozer/Deng for Pau/Artest?  Maybe.
Cleveland - too far away from contention.
Dallas - Marion/Mayo?  I think that's about on par with my proposal.
Denver - Gallinari?  I don't see the fit.
Detroit - Maggette/Jerebko/Knight - blech.
Warriors - can't see them wanting a two-towers with Bogut.
Houston - not enough proven players to interest LA.  Maybe a three-way trade.
Indiana - wouldn't give up anything of value with Hibbert resigned.
Clippers - The Lakers wouldn't want Jordan and the Clips would have to gut their wing rotation to get him.
Grizzlies - Z-Bo? Just doesn't seem to make sense.
Heat - nope
Bucks - Monta/Ilyasova? Undo the Bogut deal, essentially?  Maybe.
Minny - I think they're happy with Pekovic, but AK/Ridnour/Williams would be an interesting deal.
Hornets- too far from contention.
OKC - can't see a match.
Orlando - nope.
Philly - why with Bynum?
Phoenix - probably happy with Gortat.
Portland - don't think they have the right contracts to make it work without gutting their team.
Sacramento - too far from contention.
Spurs - why with Duncan?
Toronto - Bargnani/Fields/Ross... maybe.
Utah - overloaded with bigs, can't see them being interested.
Wizards - Nene doesn't fit with Howard.

So I see Chicago, Toronto, Milwaukee and maybe Minny as the only other teams with interest (all teams with short-term playoff ambitions) and interesting parts on offer.
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 03:09:18 PM »

Offline Yogi

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   What?  We instantly become old and slow while the Lakers surround their Big 3 with all the great deals that Danny pulled off?  The Lakers literally would jump at this deal because this sets them up as a top two team in the league for the next 3 years. 
   The Celtics would be ok, but no way we can last 7 games against Miami without depth... if we make it that far.  All our stars except Rondo would be in their 30's and we have Ebanks as our back up small forward?  We would be better in the half court, but Miami will destroy us in transition and Pau, KG and Pierce would be exhausted in the 4th quarter as Lebron and Wade take over like in Game 7. 
   Do you have any idea how HORRIBLE Ebanks and Meeks are?  They couldn't stay on the floor on a team that desperately needed youth and athleticism even with Brown's job on the line.  Meeks single handedly lost the game against the Spurs by how terrible he played. 
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Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 03:13:44 PM »

Offline snively

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Do you think a Pierce/Pau swap (with Bass probably thrown in to match salaries and Ebanks thrown in for 3 depth) would be worth it for Boston?

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green/Ebanks
KG/Sully
Pau/Wilcox/Collins

Pau gives you about as much scoring as Pierce, plus a big boost to our rebounding and interior D (when KG is off the floor), but we lose one of our best shooters/playmakers.  Wish the Lakers had a decent back-up 3 like Matt Barnes to throw in.
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 03:17:49 PM »

Offline alajet

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You might be right.  I couldn't think of any earlier, but I'll run through the league.
 
Detroit - Maggette/Jerebko/Knight - blech.

I particularly liked this comment of yours :)

Anyway, while a Gasol & KG combination would be scary as you could switch them through PF to C even during games to shot down the opposition's schemes, but Celtics lose a ton of energy and without energy, they won't be good enough to stand up to the likes of Heat or Thunder.
I still have hopes for this current roster, because I do still have faith in Green providing much more consistently in time.

It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Do you think a Pierce/Pau swap (with Bass probably thrown in to match salaries and Ebanks thrown in for 3 depth) would be worth it for Boston?

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green/Ebanks
KG/Sully
Pau/Wilcox/Collins

Pau gives you about as much scoring as Pierce, plus a big boost to our rebounding and interior D (when KG is off the floor), but we lose one of our best shooters/playmakers.  Wish the Lakers had a decent back-up 3 like Matt Barnes to throw in.

So, Nash-Kobe-Pierce-X-Howard. Now, Lakers have not only a dominant center inside and a good passer, but also have two of the clutchest active players on court together, as if Kobe wasn't good enough on his own. And in a run and gun style play, Paul will be left with tons of wide open three-pointers and you know, he is Paul Pierce, not Ron Artest.
We should definitely avoid doing this kind of favor to Lakers.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 03:23:30 PM »

Offline Who

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Do you think a Pierce/Pau swap (with Bass probably thrown in to match salaries and Ebanks thrown in for 3 depth) would be worth it for Boston?

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green/Ebanks
KG/Sully
Pau/Wilcox/Collins

Pau gives you about as much scoring as Pierce, plus a big boost to our rebounding and interior D (when KG is off the floor), but we lose one of our best shooters/playmakers.  Wish the Lakers had a decent back-up 3 like Matt Barnes to throw in.

#1 -- SF Depth -- They could sign Pietrus as a free agent. He is still available and there would be minutes available for him now. The trade + Pietrus signing would need to be workable under that $74 million cap we're under. If so, that could give them some depth at three.

#2 -- I don't know. I am going back and forth on it.

On one hand, I really like the idea offensively of KG and Pau. Unlike on the Lakers, Boston (KG) gives Pau enough time and space to go to work on smaller defenders in the post. That would be a nice sight.

On the other hand, I am worried about them defensively though. Pau defending the perimeter and PnRs isn't good (but workable) + I don't trust Jeff Green as the main defensive option against LeBron. And if no Pietrus, Green would not only be the main option against LeBron, he'd be the only defensive option. I really like having Pierce against LeBron.

Then again, if Pau can force Miami to go big, then I think that is a winning lineup against Miami. But the defense will have to hold up well enough for that to happen (or for Spoelstra to make a panic decision which could happen).

I don't know. It's one of those ones where I'd probably change my mind back and forth about it every 20 minutes.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 04:13:16 PM »

Offline snively

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Do you think a Pierce/Pau swap (with Bass probably thrown in to match salaries and Ebanks thrown in for 3 depth) would be worth it for Boston?

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green/Ebanks
KG/Sully
Pau/Wilcox/Collins

Pau gives you about as much scoring as Pierce, plus a big boost to our rebounding and interior D (when KG is off the floor), but we lose one of our best shooters/playmakers.  Wish the Lakers had a decent back-up 3 like Matt Barnes to throw in.

#1 -- SF Depth -- They could sign Pietrus as a free agent. He is still available and there would be minutes available for him now. The trade + Pietrus signing would need to be workable under that $74 million cap we're under. If so, that could give them some depth at three.

#2 -- I don't know. I am going back and forth on it.

On one hand, I really like the idea offensively of KG and Pau. Unlike on the Lakers, Boston (KG) gives Pau enough time and space to go to work on smaller defenders in the post. That would be a nice sight.

On the other hand, I am worried about them defensively though. Pau defending the perimeter and PnRs isn't good (but workable) + I don't trust Jeff Green as the main defensive option against LeBron. And if no Pietrus, Green would not only be the main option against LeBron, he'd be the only defensive option. I really like having Pierce against LeBron.

Then again, if Pau can force Miami to go big, then I think that is a winning lineup against Miami. But the defense will have to hold up well enough for that to happen (or for Spoelstra to make a panic decision which could happen).

I don't know. It's one of those ones where I'd probably change my mind back and forth about it every 20 minutes.

Maybe a follow-up trade of Courtney Lee for Luc Richard Mbah a Moute or Corey Brewer?
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 04:29:03 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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So who's guarding James or Battier int he playoffs???  Neither of them can cover the paint and run out to the three in time to cover Battier. Neither one could guard James straight up. I mean this is the team we will have to go threw to the finals.

Any trade needs to involve getting a guy that can cover James or Battier.

Trading Green with out getting a good SF is bad, Green is coming around.

If Lee doesn't pic up his play by then end of Dec,and AB is back to full, I'd rather have a Bass/Lee/filler for Smith. Gives the C's a guy that can help KG guard the paint(Bass can't do) rebound, drive to the paint(Bass looks scary doing that). And a great target for Rondo in the fast break.

Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 04:29:15 PM »

Offline action781

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It would need to be based around Paul Pierce.

The Celtics role players aren't valuable enough to LA to make it worthwhile for them.

Do you think a Pierce/Pau swap (with Bass probably thrown in to match salaries and Ebanks thrown in for 3 depth) would be worth it for Boston?

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green/Ebanks
KG/Sully
Pau/Wilcox/Collins

Pau gives you about as much scoring as Pierce, plus a big boost to our rebounding and interior D (when KG is off the floor), but we lose one of our best shooters/playmakers.  Wish the Lakers had a decent back-up 3 like Matt Barnes to throw in.

#1 -- SF Depth -- They could sign Pietrus as a free agent. He is still available and there would be minutes available for him now. The trade + Pietrus signing would need to be workable under that $74 million cap we're under. If so, that could give them some depth at three.

#2 -- I don't know. I am going back and forth on it.

On one hand, I really like the idea offensively of KG and Pau. Unlike on the Lakers, Boston (KG) gives Pau enough time and space to go to work on smaller defenders in the post. That would be a nice sight.

On the other hand, I am worried about them defensively though. Pau defending the perimeter and PnRs isn't good (but workable) + I don't trust Jeff Green as the main defensive option against LeBron. And if no Pietrus, Green would not only be the main option against LeBron, he'd be the only defensive option. I really like having Pierce against LeBron.

Then again, if Pau can force Miami to go big, then I think that is a winning lineup against Miami. But the defense will have to hold up well enough for that to happen (or for Spoelstra to make a panic decision which could happen).

I don't know. It's one of those ones where I'd probably change my mind back and forth about it every 20 minutes.

You hit the point here.  This forces Lebron to guard one of KG or Pau.  Does Lebron do it or make Spoelstra play a bigger lineup?  I think a bigger lineup makes Miami much less dangerous offensively.

What if we could get back MWP rather than Ebanks in the deal to start at SF and guard Lebron?  Lakers would have little use for him with Pierce on board.

Pau + MWP for Pierce + Bass + Barbosa

I understand MWP isn't "what he used to be" defensively but Rondo/Bradley/MWP/Pau/KG is a very strong defensive team that would give Miami absolute fits matchup wise.  Still a very strong bench in Terry, Lee, Green, Sullinger, Wilcox.

I think D'Antoni would like to have Barbosa as someone mentioned and this trade isn't allowable until Jan. 15 when Bradley should be back.
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Re: Trade Idea for Pau
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 04:30:47 PM »

Offline action781

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So who's guarding James or Battier int he playoffs???  Neither of them can cover the paint and run out to the three in time to cover Battier. Neither one could guard James straight up. I mean this is the team we will have to go threw to the finals.

Any trade needs to involve getting a guy that can cover James or Battier.

Trading Green with out getting a good SF is bad, Green is coming around.

If Lee doesn't pic up his play by then end of Dec,and AB is back to full, I'd rather have a Bass/Lee/filler for Smith. Gives the C's a guy that can help KG guard the paint(Bass can't do) rebound, drive to the paint(Bass looks scary doing that). And a great target for Rondo in the fast break.

If they elect to go with the same lineups, then Pau guards Battier (fine) and then Battier has to try to guard Pau on the offensive side of the floor while our SF (maybe MWP) guards Lebron.

Of course you'd rather give Bass/Lee/filler for Smith... but that isn't happening!
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