Author Topic: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?  (Read 7675 times)

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Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2012, 12:01:14 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Nothing of my opinion has changed.


Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)


Rondo is a top 5 PG.

On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs


Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.


Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team. 


Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)


And is given that respect by most of his peers.

First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.

Clippers were on the way up anyways

Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.

Great,hes popular


Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?


Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.

Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that


He had players on his team with better talent. 

At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough.  At least KG still has an owner. 



Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court.  Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.




I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best?  Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.


Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.

When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so

also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:08:28 PM by scaryjerry »

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2012, 12:04:50 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Nothing of my opinion has changed.


Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)


Rondo is a top 5 PG.

On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs


Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.


Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team. 


Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)


And is given that respect by most of his peers.

As I agree with your first two lines. Chandler and West have done pretty well on their own. West being the number one option in Indy. Chandler winning a championship for the mavs and defensive player of the year with the Knicks.


But he made them look like offensive stars.


In Dallas, Chandler had another great PG in Kidd who did the same thing. 

And West was not the number 1 option with the Pacers.  Granger took 5 more shots a game then West last year.  West took .5 more shots a game then Hibbert, .8 more shots then Barbosa and 1.1 shots more then Paul.   


West as the number 1 option is leading to a losing record at the moment. 



Yes, West has slowed down.  But he is a nice complimentary scorer, not the go to scorer.  Paul made him look like a go to scorer.

  Chandler's numbers on the Knicks are probably better than he had playing with CP.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2012, 12:15:26 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Part of CP value, is that he fits with anyone. Kind of like Paul Pierce at SF actually.

With Rondo you need a certain type of rotation behind him and at the wings. (e.g. Tony Allen is a really bad wing to play with Rondo.) If we see a full season of quality shooting from the field. But in the meantime 6 games doesn't overcome a sample of 6 years.

  I can't count the number of posts about how you need a shooter like Ray for Rondo to be effective and Rondo didn't miss a beat. We also seem to need two jump shooting bigs like Bass and KG for Rondo to be effective, unless of course you play Perk or Shaq. He also seems to do fine with players like Lee and Terry.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2012, 12:26:25 PM »

Offline kp4000

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I give Paul the edge, because he'll play consistent nightly where as Rondo, tends play with a switch. One night Rondo's switch is on, then the next night his switch is off. Just my opinion.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2012, 12:27:43 PM »

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In Dallas, Chandler had another great PG in Kidd who did the same thing. 


Just a matter of semantics really but Jason Kidd wasn't a great PG anymore when Dallas won the title. He really wasn't even a very good PG anymore. He was fairly average.

What Chandler did in Dallas was all about rebounds and defense and efficient offense and that offense had nothing to do with Kidd being his PG.
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Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2012, 12:30:06 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Yeah im pretty sure rondo can play with anyone. TA was thriving playing along Rondo when he got minutes. Avery Bradley who many compare to a smaller TA has Celtics fans foaming at the mouth over what Rondo turned him into last year.

Rondo makes Bass a starter basically and people think Rondo would thrive with J Smith who is pretty much the opposite of Bass.

Im pretty sure Rondo would thrive with anyone on his team.

Just like im pretty sure Rondos assists wont drop down cause Ray allen left or if KG and Pierce weren't playing.

And sorry for the rant but the most lazy analysis of Chris Paul is "he took a lotto team to 2nd round of playoffs" ooooh sweet argument...

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2012, 12:37:20 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Chris Paul is the best point guard in the league.  Rondo leads the league in assists.  Hard to argue against either of these statements.   

Got it in one, dude!

Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).

They got crushed by the Spurs... but the Spurs were Sherman's Marching their way through everyone right then, and when the other team can go to Greg Popovich and you're stuck staring at Vinny Del Negro's vancant expression and blank piece of paper, there's only so much one player can do.

*Of course, he might be the last of the traditional point guards still playing at an elite level.
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Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2012, 12:52:20 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).


  There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2012, 12:56:09 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Nothing of my opinion has changed.


Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)


Rondo is a top 5 PG.

On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs


Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.


Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team. 


Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)


And is given that respect by most of his peers.

First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.

Clippers were on the way up anyways

Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.

Great,hes popular


Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?


Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.

Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that


He had players on his team with better talent. 

At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough.  At least KG still has an owner. 



Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court.  Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.




I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best?  Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.


Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.

When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so

also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching.  Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player.  We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player.   Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players.  Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard.  Rondo was #29.  Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3.  He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game.  One of the league's best defenders.  He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.   

You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair.  That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.

It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title.  Is that exaggerated?  Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.

This is a silly debate.  Chris Paul is better.  No question.  If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo".   There's a solid case for each side.  I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title.   But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now.  Much better debate.  Go with that one.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2012, 01:12:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).


  There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.

Come on.  Upgrading from Eric Gordon to Chris Paul took the Clippers from a 32 win team to a 50 win team in their FIRST year together.  Paul was playing the Spurs with a strained right hip flexor/jammed finger and Super athletic Blake was playing with a sprained left knee.   

This board (myself included) can often be very hypocritical.  If injuries don't matter, then why aren't more CEltic fans worried about Avery Bradley's atrocious 37% shooting (22% from three and 66% from the line) in his 10 playoff games last year.  6.7 points per game and less than 1 steal and less than 1 block in starters minutes.  Concerning performance from our future star shooting guard, right?

Fwiw, both the Nets and Clippers have a better regular season record than the Celtics as of right now. 
 

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2012, 01:13:28 PM »

Offline kp4000

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Nothing of my opinion has changed.


Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA (top 4 more accurately)


Rondo is a top 5 PG.

On what planet has Chris Paul earned top 5 player in the game...honestly.
Oh yeah...nothing...earn that in the playoffs


Leaving a team turned it from a playoff team to a lotto team.


Joining a team changed it from a lotto team to a 2nd round team. 


Has made good players look like all-stars (West, Chandler)


And is given that respect by most of his peers.

First round fodder...they then tanked to get draft picks once Chris Paul quit on them.

Clippers were on the way up anyways

Chandler was awesome with the mavericks and now knocks frankly he was the one who made Paul look good...David west is an all star caliber player.

Great,hes popular


Are you describing the last few years KG was with the t-wolves?


Except that Paul's team was 46-36, in the playoffs, the year before he left.

Yes kgs teams were horrible I'm not sure your point honestly....kg didn't ever play with talent like chandler and west and his teams were just fodder if that


He had players on his team with better talent. 

At the end, the team wasn't good enough, just like Paul's team wasn't good enough.  At least KG still has an owner. 



Of course none of this has to do with Paul's talent level and his effects on the court.  Just a non-talent level argument when the numbers arguments fail.




I still don't get the importance of fans having to argue that individual players on their team has to be the best?  Rondo probably has a better chance to win a title this year not because he is more talented, but because he is surrounded by a more talented and experienced team.


Show me where I said rondo is the best? this is strictly about chris paul being the most overrated player of the generation and there being no reason for a guy whos done nothing to be the one you judge other players by...its a joke.

When he carries his team to anything significant or ever comes anywhere close to living up to the hype of some things such as "better than isiah was" ill gladly say so

also im sorry but rondo would light it up with clippers talent, im not so sure about an aging KG and PP being this superior talent then what the clippers have...cp3 has 2 of the leagues most promising young bigs 3 point shooting out the wazoo and even big shot billups when he comes back..give me a break... if he was anything even close to as good as you think then theyre a legit contender, period end of discussion
Jerry I think you're reaching.  Chris Paul is essentially a flawless player.  We aren't talking about Allen Iverson here... a guy who consistently shot 40%, ballhogged his way to mass appeal and was never much of a team player.   Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players.  Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard.  Rondo was #29.  Beyond stats, there aren't many folks around the league that have anything bad to say about CP3.  He's seen as perhaps the best leader in the game and one of the best crunch time players in the game.  One of the league's best defenders.  He was selected All-NBA 1st team and All-Defense 1st team last year... both ahead of Rondo.   

You and I both know that leaning on Chris Paul's playoff history (which is solid considering the talent he played with) is unfair.  That's like saying KG wasn't a dominant force in the league during his prime, because the Wolves consistently got trounced in the playoffs... or that Paul Pierce wasn't one of the best SF's in the league, because the Celtics never did anything with him as their top player.

It's like saying Mario Chalmers is a better point guard, because he's been to the Finals twice and won a title.  Is that exaggerated?  Fine... it's like saying Chris Bosh is better than Dwight Howard, because he's won a ring.

This is a silly debate.  Chris Paul is better.  No question.  If you guys want something less lopsided to argue about... go with "Deron Williams vs Rondo".   There's a solid case for each side.  I'd say comparing Williams career to Rondo's... Williams gets the slight nod in spite of Rondo riding the Big 3 to a title.   But I'd have a tough time arguing that Williams (and his current ankle trouble) is playing as well as Rondo right now.  Much better debate.  Go with that one.

Dude, are u seriously using Chalmers and Rondo in the same conversation?

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There's not that much distance between Paul and Rondo. C'mon now.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2012, 01:14:26 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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if you ask me this question last year, I would still say Chris Paul. As most of you said, he turned a lotto team in the clips to a 2nd round playoff team and they are still improving. He is able to lead the Hornets with limited talent to the playoffs and also to the 2nd round. The old argument was that he is a better shooter and finisher, but that is simply not the case anymore. As we have seen Rondo finishing the 76ers in game 7 last year and his game 2 performance against the Heat. That entire heat series, Rondo was our leader as well. So you can make a valid case on who is better.

Come this season, we have seen what kind of leader Rondo is. He has made this team, HIS team, and in that Bulls game, how Rondo refuse to lose. The last 3 possession Rondo all assisted on, 2 P&R and finding Bass wide open. His court vision is definitely on par if not better Chris Paul at this point.

I would say they are both tied at #1 pg spot atm...but I think Rondo has the edge cuz he is a slightly better defensive player...not by much but slightly better, and that he is healthier than Paul. As mode of you already said, if Rondo is not #1, then he is #2 and is catching up to Chris Paul really fast.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2012, 01:14:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).


  There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.

Blake Griffin has off-the-charts athleticism, and through each of his seasons he's added at least one new wrinkle to his game. He is, after all, only in his third year in the league. Right now he's floating somewhere around poor-man's Shawn Kemp.

But he's never been an elite player, just a highlight machine who sells a ton of jerseys and Kias.

And, also, they have VDN. The guy who forgot to sub Chris Paul back in during the playoffs.

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Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2012, 01:16:51 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Quote from: LarBrd33 link=topic=60596.msg1336105#msg1336105
[/quote
  Strictly statistically speaking, CP3 consistently ranks #1 and consistently in the top 5 amongst players.  Last year he was #5 behind Bron, Love, Durant and Howard.  Rondo was #29. 


Correction: Rondo was 15th among all players and 2nd among point guards last year in efficiency stats when you consider the entire season, which, of course, includes the post-season.

Re: Chris Paul Still better than Rondo?
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2012, 01:25:22 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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Rondo has three or four plays a game that are mind-bogglingly awesome--some next level, only in a video-game, moments made for slow motion replay passes... but CP3 is, I think, the best traditional point guard in the game*. He makes a team with Blake Griffin as its centerpiece into an expected playoff team (and you should go back and watch their series against Memphis if you want a primer in Chris Paulogy).


  There were a lot of "can you build a team around Rondo" threads last fall/winter (especially around the Rondo/CP rumors) and people were making lists of franchise players that you could build contending teams around. Almost every list that was made included both CP and Griffin. Now that both of those "superstars" are on the same team it's considered a great achievement that they won a playoff series.

Blake Griffin has off-the-charts athleticism, and through each of his seasons he's added at least one new wrinkle to his game. He is, after all, only in his third year in the league. Right now he's floating somewhere around poor-man's Shawn Kemp.

But he's never been an elite player, just a highlight machine who sells a ton of jerseys and Kias.

And, also, they have VDN. The guy who forgot to sub Chris Paul back in during the playoffs.



Yup, I have to seriously question anyone who thinks that Blake Griffin and Vinny Del Negro gave a player a better shot to win a playoff game than Kevin Garnett and Doc Rivers in 2012.

 

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