Author Topic: Are the Celts really a deep team?  (Read 3955 times)

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Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 06:10:36 PM »

Offline Edgar

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

yup

i dont get why Rivers seems to always carry a free pass
or at least the beneffit of the perennial doubt.

Its time to see he makes a LOT of mistakes that from time to time his talented teams cover partially
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Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 06:11:33 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

Have you been reading this blog lately?  All people are doing is blaming Doc Rivers for our poor start. 

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 06:12:19 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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The C's play system is very complicated. It may take a while for the new players to completely memorize some plays. Once the chemistry clicks, this team will be extremely deep.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 06:23:23 PM »

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

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I see two big problems with the bench right now

#1 -- Doc is giving Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass too many minutes. Bass is a weak starter and Lee only a serviceable one. Fair enough giving the high level starters like Rondo, KG and Pierce big minutes (preferably 34mpg, 30mpg, 33-34mpg respectively) but Bass and Lee shouldn't be up around 30 a night with them. Bass is a 20-24 minute a night player and Lee should be given similar court time as a starter while Bradley is injured.

Those minutes should instead be given to Jason Terry (PG/SG) and Jeff Green (SF/PF). Neither player is being given enough court time to show how much of a game-changing presence they can be as bench players. They need more playing time!

There is no point in having top notch bench players if you refuse to give them the minutes necessary to be game-changing bench players.

#2 -- The Bass + Sully combinations (or Bass/Green) have really hurt the team. Once Doc works his way away from those lineups - which will hopefully be soon - the bench will look a lot more effective.
TP for truth, somebody write this out by hand and mail it to Doc.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 06:28:26 PM »

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I'd say we're a very deep team. But what good is depth for if all your players are mediocre?
I break down our team into two lists

I see KG, Rondo, Pierce, Terry and Green as our excellent players or with the potential to be excellent and compete with the elite players in the NBA.

I'd put Bradley and Barbosa as the next two bordering on that list has having the ability to change the game with their play from more than one dimension. (on ball defense and scoring if they're having a hot night)

We then have Lee, Bass, Wilcox and Darko-all good players but are really good at one thing. (defense, jumpshooting, protecting the rim, or running the floor).

We need to add an All Star to the first list to be a seriously deep or threatening team.
We don't want to turn into the Spurs where we just add loads of mediocre players to our aging core- it just doesn't work.
We need an All Star. Imagine if the Spurs had Josh Smith instead of Duwan Blair.. They'd be a beast and probably would've gone the finals.
Same as us in game 7 of the ECF. We did a great job getting that far, but in the end KG just didn't have any help protecting the rim and was forced to go out and try to guard Bosh shooting three pointers- the exact same thing will happen again this year. Josh Smith or Verajao to guard the rim and protect against Wade and Lebron driving inside while KG is out on the perimeter literally changes the Eastern Conference and makes us a legitimate title threat.
One All Star and we are laughing. We have the chips to get one and you can put your house on the fact that Danny will go after one, particularly if Green keeps performing below expectations and Bass regresses.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2012, 06:30:58 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

Have you been reading this blog lately?  All people are doing is blaming Doc Rivers for our poor start.

I'm clearly talking to the guys that aren't blaming him. I know there's a few guys blaming him but the large overwhelming majority isn't and wouldn't dare even consider it.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2012, 06:36:28 PM »

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

Have you been reading this blog lately?  All people are doing is blaming Doc Rivers for our poor start.

I'm clearly talking to the guys that aren't blaming him. I know there's a few guys blaming him but the large overwhelming majority isn't and wouldn't dare even consider it.


I think it's too early to blame Doc after 5 games.
You're calling people out for not having the balls to blame him yet you're giving him 5 games and hounding him for the 2-3 start of a team with 8 new players and 2 of it's best 3 players at 75% fitness? Pierce still can't go to the rim without getting blocked 5 times, KG is running is ass off but deep in the fourth he's got no lift left.
It takes time, just like it did last season.

I think Doc deserves a little credit.
There's always a double standard. If we win a championship, it's not because of Doc but because of the players we had. If we start the season 2 wins 3 losses it's not the players, it's Doc.

The FACT is that it's been five games and if you're whining about Rivers now be prepared to bite your tongue when his system comes good.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2012, 06:37:08 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

Have you been reading this blog lately?  All people are doing is blaming Doc Rivers for our poor start.

I'm clearly talking to the guys that aren't blaming him. I know there's a few guys blaming him but the large overwhelming majority isn't and wouldn't dare even consider it.

Maybe if we are below .500 in February, I'll dare to consider it.  2 and 3 after five games, though, yeah, I think I'll give him a pass for now. 

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2012, 06:41:42 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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This team was declared one of the deepest teams in the league before the season started. One of the best benches too. Now all of a sudden we aren't deep? When does the coach get the blame? God forbid we EVER put blame on doc rivers.

Have you been reading this blog lately?  All people are doing is blaming Doc Rivers for our poor start.

I'm clearly talking to the guys that aren't blaming him. I know there's a few guys blaming him but the large overwhelming majority isn't and wouldn't dare even consider it.


I think it's too early to blame Doc after 5 games.
You're calling people out for not having the balls to blame him yet you're giving him 5 games and hounding him for the 2-3 start of a team with 8 new players and 2 of it's best 3 players at 75% fitness? Pierce still can't go to the rim without getting blocked 5 times, KG is running is ass off but deep in the fourth he's got no lift left.
It takes time, just like it did last season.

I think Doc deserves a little credit.
There's always a double standard. If we win a championship, it's not because of Doc but because of the players we had. If we start the season 2 wins 3 losses it's not the players, it's Doc.

The FACT is that it's been five games and if you're whining about Rivers now be prepared to bite your tongue when his system comes good.

Ok, i have been on the doc is overrated bandwagon for quite some time. So its not like i thought he was great and now i think he sucks all of a sudden. Lastly i will be glad to bite my tongue. You think i wanna be sitting here on these boards annoyed by my team? Id rather be talking about how the heat and lakers better watch out.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2012, 06:47:51 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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We need to add an All Star to the first list to be a seriously deep or threatening team.

I Just don't see how the Celtics can make a mid-season trade for an All-Star caliber player this season, so the best hope for the Celtics is that Bradley comes back healthy and shows that not only was the end of last season not a fluke but that he is actually capable of even better things to the point of being a borderline All-Star caliber player if scoring was not overrated and defense underrated.
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Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2012, 06:55:27 PM »

Offline mustang

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There are five unknown (to a greater or lesser degree) quantities on the roster, and if this team is going to be championship-level, they're going to have to develop.  Only Doc can develop them, and now's the time to do so, but he's retreating to his known quantities, which is not going to be enough to pass the Heat as well as whoever emerges from the West.  Who gives a rip if these guys win a playoff round?

The five players he should be focusing on figuring out the first half of the year are:

Rondo
Green
Sullinger
Milicic
Bradley (injured)

It's a real question to me whether Rondo is best served by rebuilding this offense to play faster.  If Jeff Green is ever going to be a super sixth man challenging LBJ, it'll be because Doc threw him out there, then threw him out there again to shake the rust off, the fear, the deference to the vets - whatever.  Same with Darko - I think the guy could be KG's last, best reclamation project, but Doc's consistently throwing known quantities out instead.

Everybody else is what they'll be as a player, for better or worse.  I just don't understand it - he's got the respect of the locker room.  He has job security.  This is the perfect time to try to bump up the ceiling of the squad.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 11:43:41 AM »

Offline celtics2

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A lot of people confuse what it really means to be deep?  A deep team isn't necessarily having a lot of guys that can play in a rotation.  Having 11 or 12 rotation players in most cases just means that you don't have a lot of guys that stand out.

In reality, good depth means that my sixth guy is better than your sixth guy, my seventh guy is better than your seventh guy, etc.  Of course, this does not take into account chemistry and match ups.

Anyway, we have a lot of players that have played regular minutes.  But I am not sure we're really a deep team.  At this point, having all these players seems to have done more harm than good.

By this logic we are are not a deep team. Not even shallow. Teams about are about Management, Players, Chemistry and Coach, in that order, imo. A 6th man on our team could suck while thrive on another team. At present my score is Poor for depth. We are guilty of trying to constantly create or resurrect players that are marginal. Likely on another Team a player may succeed because the Coach knows how to use him in matchups. Some Players fit better starting rather than coming off a bench etc. Good Teams like Miami start from Management on down. The Celtics blew a chance years ago to lock Bird into Management but Bird wouldn't play their type of game so he flew. Wyc has been great the rest not so. Ainge peaked but has been tumbling since.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 11:54:05 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I think we're deep for sure but the players need time to figure each other out. I thought some of the defense looked good against Milwaukee, in spurts. It started to resemble last year's D.

I'd really like to see us utilize both Collins and Darko even for 5-8 minutes each per night. Put a little weight, muscle and size on the interior when KG is out.

Time - I think we'll be Ok.

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 12:52:44 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Boston's bench play has been bad for a long time.  If it remains bad with probably the most talent since the championship year, there will be no way to deny that it's a coaching matter.

I think the main problem is that Boston has a very complicated and structured offense.  When you bring less talented or productive players off the bench and then force them to run a system that sputters and stumbles even with Rondo, KG and Pierce on the court, the result is unavoidable.

Mike

Re: Are the Celts really a deep team?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 01:47:06 PM »

Online pearljammer10

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Yes without question. The rotations are killing me though especially sully and bass together.

Point is, take away our starters and a team of. Barbosa, terry, green, Wilcox, darko with Bradley as a 6th man sully 7th Collins 8th could fight for the 8th spot on the east no question.

 

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