Author Topic: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?  (Read 1746 times)

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Offline nickagneta

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2012, 01:12:54 PM »
At this point, unless they have serious injuries, they should only be looking to trade for big men, if they can get a real upgrade (like a Smith or Varajao type), not just another end of the rotation player.  Otherwise, work on getting the guys you have up to speed.

I'd agree with this.

We already have enough low-cost bigs.  Doc just needs to play them, particularly WIlcox (maybe Darko too).

If we're making a trade, it needs to be for a game changer.
Ideally, it'd be a game changing big man (like Varejao or a Josh Smith) but I would be happy with a lesser option.

To acquire a solid starting PF (Ty Thomas) to go alongside Garnett or a high level backup C (?) to spell Garnett. I think adding a more solid option in either area (starting PF, backup C) would give the team a nice boost. Get Garnett some more help defensively.

Here's the problem.  Ty Thomas is not a solid starting PF.  He has always been a bench guy and spot starter at best, and that is when he can stay healthy. 

As an energy guy off the bench, I can see an argument, but there is zero evidence that he can be even an average starter.
I disagree, I consider Ty Thomas a solid starting PF.

Excellent athleticism. Strong defense. Solid rebounding. A solid midrange and long two point jump-shot. Excellent finisher in transition and around the basket. Draws fouls and get to the foul line.

Tyrus Thomas has some problems but his strengths more than make up for his weaknesses. He is a very solid option as a starting PF.
I'm with Chris on this one. Thomas is not close to a solid starting PF in this league. He's all youth and athleticism, something I know you love Who, but he is not a very smart player and has never shown he can fit into a system and take coaching.

Bench energy guy at best.
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Offline ssspence

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2012, 01:13:15 PM »
At this point, unless they have serious injuries, they should only be looking to trade for big men, if they can get a real upgrade (like a Smith or Varajao type), not just another end of the rotation player.  Otherwise, work on getting the guys you have up to speed.

I'd agree with this.

We already have enough low-cost bigs.  Doc just needs to play them, particularly WIlcox (maybe Darko too).

If we're making a trade, it needs to be for a game changer.
Ideally, it'd be a game changing big man (like Varejao or a Josh Smith) but I would be happy with a lesser option.

To acquire a solid starting PF (Ty Thomas) to go alongside Garnett or a high level backup C (?) to spell Garnett. I think adding a more solid option in either area (starting PF, backup C) would give the team a nice boost. Get Garnett some more help defensively.

Here's the problem.  Ty Thomas is not a solid starting PF.  He has always been a bench guy and spot starter at best, and that is when he can stay healthy. 

As an energy guy off the bench, I can see an argument, but there is zero evidence that he can be even an average starter.

If Jeff Green continues to stink and becomes essentially unmovable for anything truly desirable, it could make sense to trade him for Thomas. Thomas could be an interesting fit off the bench for the Cs, and his deal is a year shorter than Green's.

Offline Who

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2012, 01:19:28 PM »
At this point, unless they have serious injuries, they should only be looking to trade for big men, if they can get a real upgrade (like a Smith or Varajao type), not just another end of the rotation player.  Otherwise, work on getting the guys you have up to speed.

I'd agree with this.

We already have enough low-cost bigs.  Doc just needs to play them, particularly WIlcox (maybe Darko too).

If we're making a trade, it needs to be for a game changer.
Ideally, it'd be a game changing big man (like Varejao or a Josh Smith) but I would be happy with a lesser option.

To acquire a solid starting PF (Ty Thomas) to go alongside Garnett or a high level backup C (?) to spell Garnett. I think adding a more solid option in either area (starting PF, backup C) would give the team a nice boost. Get Garnett some more help defensively.

Here's the problem.  Ty Thomas is not a solid starting PF.  He has always been a bench guy and spot starter at best, and that is when he can stay healthy. 

As an energy guy off the bench, I can see an argument, but there is zero evidence that he can be even an average starter.
I disagree, I consider Ty Thomas a solid starting PF.

Excellent athleticism. Strong defense. Solid rebounding. A solid midrange and long two point jump-shot. Excellent finisher in transition and around the basket. Draws fouls and get to the foul line.

Tyrus Thomas has some problems but his strengths more than make up for his weaknesses. He is a very solid option as a starting PF.
I'm with Chris on this one. Thomas is not close to a solid starting PF in this league. He's all youth and athleticism, something I know you love Who, but he is not a very smart player and has never shown he can fit into a system and take coaching.

Bench energy guy at best.
I think there is enough smarts and skilled play in the Celtics starting unit to make Tyrus Thomas to work as the fifth starter.

On some other teams, I might agree. Not this one though.

Offline KGs Knee

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 01:30:39 PM »
I think there is enough smarts and skilled play in the Celtics starting unit to make Tyrus Thomas to work as the fifth starter.

On some other teams, I might agree. Not this one though.

Disagree

Thomas is just not worth the gamble to me.  He is a head case.  His upside is easily outweighed by his downside.  I'm not sure, even on a team like the C's, Thomas' deficiencies could be masked.
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Offline Who

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2012, 01:38:38 PM »
Brandon Bass is a low BBIQ player too and they make him work just fine.

It's the same situation with Ty Thomas (as with Bass) only Tyrus is a much more talented player than Bass is.

Offline KGs Knee

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2012, 01:48:48 PM »
Brandon Bass is a low BBIQ player too and they make him work just fine.

It's the same situation with Ty Thomas (as with Bass) only Tyrus is a much more talented player than Bass is.

Ty Thomas=Glen Davis

Do we really want to go back?

Bass is a much smarter player, if for no other reason than he knows his own limitations.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2012, 02:08:38 PM »
Brandon Bass is a low BBIQ player too and they make him work just fine.

It's the same situation with Ty Thomas (as with Bass) only Tyrus is a much more talented player than Bass is.

And yet Thomas has been a less productive NBA player than Brandon Bass.

If we are going to take a flyer on a "talented" guy who has yet to get it in the NBA, there are much cheaper options than Thomas.

...with that said, I would probably trade Jeff Green for him at this point.  I just don't think it would actually solve any issues.

Offline Who

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2012, 02:19:35 PM »
Brandon Bass is a low BBIQ player too and they make him work just fine.

It's the same situation with Ty Thomas (as with Bass) only Tyrus is a much more talented player than Bass is.

And yet Thomas has been a less productive NBA player than Brandon Bass.

If we are going to take a flyer on a "talented" guy who has yet to get it in the NBA, there are much cheaper options than Thomas.

...with that said, I would probably trade Jeff Green for him at this point.  I just don't think it would actually solve any issues.
I disagree with that. 

Tyrus Thomas was more effective as a starter in Chicago (where Ty Thomas was a solid starter) than Bass has been as a starter in Orlando or Boston (where Bass proved himself to be a weak starter) + Ty Thomas was more effective as a backup PF in Charlotte (nearly in the sixth man of the year conversation until injured) under Larry Brown than Brandon Bass has ever been (very good but never elite bench player, more of a 7th or 8th man than a 6th man).

If I were trading for Tyrus Thomas, it would be Brandon Bass that I would be looking to move for him. Not Jeff Green. Kind for kind, power forward for power forward. I would want to keep Jeff Green for matchup reasons against Miami and/or because I think he has more value than that as a trade asset (well, hopefully). I don't think a Tyrus for Green trade benefits Boston. Bass for Tyrus, that I'd be interested in.

Offline Chris

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »
Brandon Bass is a low BBIQ player too and they make him work just fine.

It's the same situation with Ty Thomas (as with Bass) only Tyrus is a much more talented player than Bass is.

And yet Thomas has been a less productive NBA player than Brandon Bass.

If we are going to take a flyer on a "talented" guy who has yet to get it in the NBA, there are much cheaper options than Thomas.

...with that said, I would probably trade Jeff Green for him at this point.  I just don't think it would actually solve any issues.
I disagree with that too. 

Tyrus Thomas was more effective as a starter in Chicago (where Ty Thomas was a solid starter) than Bass has been as a starter in Orlando or Boston (where Bass proved himself to be a weak starter) + Ty Thomas was more effective as a backup PF in Charlotte (nearly in the sixth man of the year conversation until injured) under Larry Brown than Brandon Bass has ever been (very good but never elite bench player, more of a 7th or 8th man than a 6th man).

If I were trading for Tyrus Thomas, it would be Brandon Bass that I would be looking to move for him. Not Jeff Green. Kind for kind, power forward for power forward. I would want to keep Jeff Green for matchup reasons against Miami and/or because I think he has more value than that as a trade asset (well, hopefully). I don't think a Tyrus for Green trade benefits Boston. Bass for Tyrus, that I'd be interested in.

Well, I said Green, because I think (as of right now) Green has negative trade value, because of his contract, much like Thomas does.  But Thomas' contract is shorter.

Offline snively

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2012, 03:15:11 PM »
I agree that Thomas was better at peak performance than Bass ever was.  Not quite the mid-range shooter Bass is, but a better presence on the boards and at the rim defensively + more versatile defensively. 

I'm just a little worried that he may have been broken as a player by injury/lockout/Bobcats disease/coach fallout.

But a KG/Thomas/Sullinger big rotation is much preferable to KG/Bass/Sullinger if Thomas isn't broken - keeps length, speed and shot-blocking on the floor at all times and makes Sully less of a defensive problem.
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Offline j804

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2012, 03:20:29 PM »
Tyrus Thomas wont ever be the guy he was back in his Bulls days he looks like a borderline scrub from all the times Ive seen him


Offline nostar

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Re: Cheap Big Man Options for the C's ?
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2012, 06:06:28 PM »
Once Bradley comes back healthy, a mid-season trade of Bass, Lee, Sullinger, and a first-round pick to New Orleans for Jason Smith and Ryan Anderson.

There is no way I do that. Anderson is overrated and Smith is a Darko without any hype. Giving up all of our trading chips for mediocre bigs makes no sense. If we're trading for a center let's target Gortat or Cousins.

Anderson is a better player than Al Jefferson or Amare Stoudemire.  Jason Smith knows what to do if D-Wade tries to pull a punk move on Rondo.

This is asinine. Ryan Anderson is not a better player than Al Jefferson as evidenced by their salaries and production.

And I guess if by "knows what to do" you mean "gets suspended for 15+ games" then yeah I guess I'm willing to give up Bass/Lee/Sully for a guy who will hammer you. Oh wait I'm pretty sure Darko can and will already do that. Remember he offered to kill someone...

Two thoughts:

1) I maintain as I have for months I'd rather have Kenyon Martin on this team than have the combo of Darko and J Collins, who basically cancel each other out to me. Cut one of them out and sign the guy;

2) Larry Sanders should be a trade target. The Bucks have more PFs than the Hall of Fame, and need to rebuild completely. If The Colonel could learn to reduce his foul rate, he could be lethal as a weak side rim defender in the Celtics system, then run the floor on the break with RR. There's no better mentor for a player like him than KG. Trade Melo for him.

I love this idea. If the Bucks would take it I would really like to see Larry Sanders as a big on the Cs. I've always liked his length and he's very cheap (2M, 3M and 4M over the next 3). If he pans out he's a steal, if he doesn't he's a low risk bet.

Melo for him is a get, I'd do Melo and a 2nd rounder.

TP for the idea. I wanted Mbah a Moute too. Maybe a Sanders/Moute for Lee/Melo trade would work. I'm not sure if that is enough and I'd give a first to make it happen. This wouldn't be possible until after January 15th anyway so Bradley would be back in full swing I expect.

 

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