Author Topic: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?  (Read 3245 times)

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Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 06:13:14 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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No quality size outside of KG.

Amen.  The team's biggest problems stem from the weaknesses of our big men.

We're on pace to set another NBA record for poorest ORB% (hopefully Sully improves in this area - a non-factor so far on the offensive glass).

Our pick and roll defense is pretty bad whenever KG rests (and sometimes even when he's playing).

We have no one to protect the rim when KG rests (at least no one good enough to break the rotation just yet).

Our undersized bigs (Bass, Sully, Green) aren't providing enough match-up advantages offensively to make up for their weaknesses as defenders and rebounders.  Besides, with two scoring combo guards off the bench, there aren't really enough shots for them to make a big offensive impact.

Yep. Someone like Nene would do wonders for our team.

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 06:14:20 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Lack of familiarity and an uncomfortableness amongst key role players like Jet, Green and Lee. Jet showed that his arrow is trending up though.

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Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »

Offline OhioGreen

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Small ball & personnel

We have no size (that plays, anyway)
Of our player with size (6'8" or greater--none are really good shot blockers,or intimidaters     (of the ones that play, anyway[Darko]
Because of our "scramble back on D and forget offensive rebounding" concept we haven't ever recently been a good rebounding team, but with Doc's "small ball" we are now absolutely horrid!

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 06:33:50 PM »

Offline TA9

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One word: Rebounding.
Sully is the only one trying out there.
Dont tell me that the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon!

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 06:37:09 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Doc might be expecting a lot more Sully come playoff time. Maybe that's why we keep seeing Bass and Sully. With more game time, Sully and Bass would be able to learn how to play team defense more.

Wilcox's 3 minutes sparked an 8 point swing. Like others have said, he's not starting caliber. But he's legit 6'10 with athleticism to match.

It's much harder to score over a 6'10 hyper-athletic player or a 7 footer than it is a 6'9 slow footed rookie. I have a feeling our growing pains might be because of Sully's own growing pains.

I think once Doc's done with the experiment, we'll see Darko and Wilcox. Sully would hopefully learn to anchor the defense a little.

The effort sucks but when your opponent can get to the rim easy it's deflating. But, again, I think it's got at least a little to do with getting Sully in shape for the playoffs. Better now than later of course.

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 06:43:48 PM »

Offline snively

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No quality size outside of KG.
Please check out every roster on the NBA team.  How many have more quality than Bass, Sullinger and Wilcox supporting up their best big? 
Indiana has David West, Ian Mahimi and Hansborough. 
Chicago has Boozer, Gibson and Mohammed. 
San Antonio has Diaw, Splitter, Blair and Bonner. 
Miami has Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony.  Lakers have Pau Gasol, Jordan Hill and Jamison.  Atlanta
Horford, Pachulia and Ivan Johnson? 
Knicks are rolling out Stoudemire, Thomas, Camby and Sheed.
Philly has Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen and Kwame Brown.
The nets have Kris Humphries, Andray Blatche and a couple of struggling Euros. 
Orlando is bringing Vucevic, Ayon and Nicholson.
Honestly how many 7fts do you see in the bunch?  MOST of these guys are Sullinger's (and Bass') height with less bulk.


How many of these guys have more athleticism than Jared Sullinger?  Bass and Wilcox might be the most athletic of the bunch.  How many of these guys rebound and block shots better than Bass and Sullinger?  Not close to as many as people make out.  Our Bigs are perfectly fine  above average in fact.

On your list, West, Boozer (not so much anymore, but still better than Bass/Sully), Pau and Horford are major impact players that outstrip the impact of any of our non-KG bigs. 

Guys like Splitter, Gibson and Hawes are more useful too. 

Bass and maybe Sully qualify as above average back-up 4s in the right situation, but we don't have an above-average starting 4 or an above-average back-up 5 to keep them in their ideal role.  And further, our one elite big man can't play much more than 30mpg.

Thus our bigs are only really good when they play with KG.
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Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 08:11:32 PM »

Offline Yogi

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No quality size outside of KG.
Please check out every roster on the NBA team.  How many have more quality than Bass, Sullinger and Wilcox supporting up their best big? 
Indiana has David West, Ian Mahimi and Hansborough. 
Chicago has Boozer, Gibson and Mohammed. 
San Antonio has Diaw, Splitter, Blair and Bonner. 
Miami has Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony.  Lakers have Pau Gasol, Jordan Hill and Jamison.  Atlanta
Horford, Pachulia and Ivan Johnson? 
Knicks are rolling out Stoudemire, Thomas, Camby and Sheed.
Philly has Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen and Kwame Brown.
The nets have Kris Humphries, Andray Blatche and a couple of struggling Euros. 
Orlando is bringing Vucevic, Ayon and Nicholson.
Honestly how many 7fts do you see in the bunch?  MOST of these guys are Sullinger's (and Bass') height with less bulk.


How many of these guys have more athleticism than Jared Sullinger?  Bass and Wilcox might be the most athletic of the bunch.  How many of these guys rebound and block shots better than Bass and Sullinger?  Not close to as many as people make out.  Our Bigs are perfectly fine  above average in fact.

On your list, West, Boozer (not so much anymore, but still better than Bass/Sully), Pau and Horford are major impact players that outstrip the impact of any of our non-KG bigs. 

Guys like Splitter, Gibson and Hawes are more useful too. 

Bass and maybe Sully qualify as above average back-up 4s in the right situation, but we don't have an above-average starting 4 or an above-average back-up 5 to keep them in their ideal role.  And further, our one elite big man can't play much more than 30mpg.

Thus our bigs are only really good when they play with KG.
West is slightly better than Bass and earns a lot more.  The other guys are 2nd or 3rd best players on their teams who make 2-3 times as much as Bass.  Splitter Gibson and Hawes are NOT more useful.  Gibson and Splitter have no offense.  Hawes is a poor defender.  If you want to pay two hall of famers, a dominant point guard, deep bench, and still want a Horford or Gasol then you're building an All-Star team not an NBA team.
   That's kind of like Laker fans saying their weakness is they don't have Iggy instead of Peace, or Heat fans saying their weakness is not having Cp3 instead of Chalmers.  No one will be complaining about our size when we play to our full potential.  We have enough to win 18.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 08:16:53 PM by Yogi »
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Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2012, 08:41:28 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Lack of qaulity bigs and age.   We suck as soon as KG goes to the bench.

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 08:50:37 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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No quality size outside of KG.
Please check out every roster on the NBA team.  How many have more quality than Bass, Sullinger and Wilcox supporting up their best big? 
Indiana has David West, Ian Mahimi and Hansborough. 
Chicago has Boozer, Gibson and Mohammed. 
San Antonio has Diaw, Splitter, Blair and Bonner. 
Miami has Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony.  Lakers have Pau Gasol, Jordan Hill and Jamison.  Atlanta
Horford, Pachulia and Ivan Johnson? 
Knicks are rolling out Stoudemire, Thomas, Camby and Sheed.
Philly has Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen and Kwame Brown.
The nets have Kris Humphries, Andray Blatche and a couple of struggling Euros. 
Orlando is bringing Vucevic, Ayon and Nicholson.
Honestly how many 7fts do you see in the bunch?  MOST of these guys are Sullinger's (and Bass') height with less bulk.


How many of these guys have more athleticism than Jared Sullinger?  Bass and Wilcox might be the most athletic of the bunch.  How many of these guys rebound and block shots better than Bass and Sullinger?  Not close to as many as people make out.  Our Bigs are perfectly fine  above average in fact.

On your list, West, Boozer (not so much anymore, but still better than Bass/Sully), Pau and Horford are major impact players that outstrip the impact of any of our non-KG bigs. 

Guys like Splitter, Gibson and Hawes are more useful too. 

Bass and maybe Sully qualify as above average back-up 4s in the right situation, but we don't have an above-average starting 4 or an above-average back-up 5 to keep them in their ideal role.  And further, our one elite big man can't play much more than 30mpg.

Thus our bigs are only really good when they play with KG.
West is slightly better than Bass and earns a lot more.  The other guys are 2nd or 3rd best players on their teams who make 2-3 times as much as Bass.  Splitter Gibson and Hawes are NOT more useful.  Gibson and Splitter have no offense.  Hawes is a poor defender.  If you want to pay two hall of famers, a dominant point guard, deep bench, and still want a Horford or Gasol then you're building an All-Star team not an NBA team.
   That's kind of like Laker fans saying their weakness is they don't have Iggy instead of Peace, or Heat fans saying their weakness is not having Cp3 instead of Chalmers.  No one will be complaining about our size when we play to our full potential.  We have enough to win 18.

I think there may be some optimism bias here.

Our PG is 3-6th in the league or so. Very good, but with flaws, and unfortunately his flaws may not mesh well with the team flaws.

SG is a solid notch above replacement level, but probably low-average starter (until Bradley comes back and ONLY IF Bradley plays this whole season as well as he ended last year).

SF is a future hall of famer, but he's definitely on the downslope. Still all-star level, but not all-nba any team level.

PF is either rookie or Bass. Good Bench PF/Sub average starter.

C is KG. Out of position? Future hall of famer for sure, but noticeably down a couple notches from what earned him the hall. Very good D. Really regressing on offense. Like Pierce, still all-star level, but not all-nba.

Bench: Terry should be a solid mle bench player. Green is overpaid and unless he does something he has never shown in his career, will be overpaid for his career. some big bodies with big flaws.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think this team could (or should have) rework some assets to get a real starting center, and bring sully/bass as bench bigs. We certainly aren't a juggernaut at this point.

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 08:58:11 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Definitely Mental Edge as the original poster says. The only guy showing any enthusiasm of any kind is Terry. Getting the crowd into it and pumping up the other guys on the team. Every body else oesnt even look like they want to be on the floor. No one looks like they are having any fun or even trying to put anything into the games.

Uh, not been watching KG much? He's been as energetic as ever!

Kg looked like a corpse last night other then the time Vesey kicked the ball out of bounds

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 09:05:15 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Definitely Mental Edge as the original poster says. The only guy showing any enthusiasm of any kind is Terry. Getting the crowd into it and pumping up the other guys on the team. Every body else oesnt even look like they want to be on the floor. No one looks like they are having any fun or even trying to put anything into the games.

Uh, not been watching KG much? He's been as energetic as ever!

Kg looked like a corpse last night other then the time Vesey kicked the ball out of bounds

I'd take a 20 point, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks corpse any day

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 09:16:07 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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No quality size outside of KG.
Please check out every roster on the NBA team.  How many have more quality than Bass, Sullinger and Wilcox supporting up their best big? 
Indiana has David West, Ian Mahimi and Hansborough. 
Chicago has Boozer, Gibson and Mohammed. 
San Antonio has Diaw, Splitter, Blair and Bonner. 
Miami has Rashard Lewis, Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony.  Lakers have Pau Gasol, Jordan Hill and Jamison.  Atlanta
Horford, Pachulia and Ivan Johnson? 
Knicks are rolling out Stoudemire, Thomas, Camby and Sheed.
Philly has Spencer Hawes, Lavoy Allen and Kwame Brown.
The nets have Kris Humphries, Andray Blatche and a couple of struggling Euros. 
Orlando is bringing Vucevic, Ayon and Nicholson.
Honestly how many 7fts do you see in the bunch?  MOST of these guys are Sullinger's (and Bass') height with less bulk.


How many of these guys have more athleticism than Jared Sullinger?  Bass and Wilcox might be the most athletic of the bunch.  How many of these guys rebound and block shots better than Bass and Sullinger?  Not close to as many as people make out.  Our Bigs are perfectly fine  above average in fact.

On your list, West, Boozer (not so much anymore, but still better than Bass/Sully), Pau and Horford are major impact players that outstrip the impact of any of our non-KG bigs. 

Guys like Splitter, Gibson and Hawes are more useful too. 

Bass and maybe Sully qualify as above average back-up 4s in the right situation, but we don't have an above-average starting 4 or an above-average back-up 5 to keep them in their ideal role.  And further, our one elite big man can't play much more than 30mpg.

Thus our bigs are only really good when they play with KG.
West is slightly better than Bass and earns a lot more.  The other guys are 2nd or 3rd best players on their teams who make 2-3 times as much as Bass.  Splitter Gibson and Hawes are NOT more useful.  Gibson and Splitter have no offense.  Hawes is a poor defender.  If you want to pay two hall of famers, a dominant point guard, deep bench, and still want a Horford or Gasol then you're building an All-Star team not an NBA team.
   That's kind of like Laker fans saying their weakness is they don't have Iggy instead of Peace, or Heat fans saying their weakness is not having Cp3 instead of Chalmers.  No one will be complaining about our size when we play to our full potential.  We have enough to win 18.

I think there may be some optimism bias here.

Our PG is 3-6th in the league or so. Very good, but with flaws, and unfortunately his flaws may not mesh well with the team flaws.

SG is a solid notch above replacement level, but probably low-average starter (until Bradley comes back and ONLY IF Bradley plays this whole season as well as he ended last year).

SF is a future hall of famer, but he's definitely on the downslope. Still all-star level, but not all-nba any team level.

PF is either rookie or Bass. Good Bench PF/Sub average starter.

C is KG. Out of position? Future hall of famer for sure, but noticeably down a couple notches from what earned him the hall. Very good D. Really regressing on offense. Like Pierce, still all-star level, but not all-nba.

Bench: Terry should be a solid mle bench player. Green is overpaid and unless he does something he has never shown in his career, will be overpaid for his career. some big bodies with big flaws.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think this team could (or should have) rework some assets to get a real starting center, and bring sully/bass as bench bigs. We certainly aren't a juggernaut at this point.

I think there may be some pessimism bias here.

PG: I don't think you meant third to sixth in the NBA overall.  So, as a point guard, he's more like in the top two. 

SG:  Our best shooting guard (not the one starting) is well above low-average starter level.  Jason Terry is above average for his position among starting level two guards.  People are hating way too much on the JET after a couple of sub-par games to start the season (MLE level player.  That's an absolute insult).

SF:  I'm not going to argue too much there (although, I think he could put himself in the discussion for all NBA third team by the end of the season). 

PF:  I agree.

C:  Old? yes.  Out of position? yes.  A top 3 center in the league? yes.

Bench:  Potentially one of the best in the league.  JET's been one of the best sixth men in the league for a long time.  Jeff Green is unquestionably extremely talented.  I expect him to live up that talent as a bench player.  Bass or Sully: solid.  Wilcox: Better than many give him credit for.  Once Avery comes back, either he or Lee will be a very good bench guy. 

Final analysis:  Legitimate contender for the crown.
 

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2012, 09:17:06 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Definitely Mental Edge as the original poster says. The only guy showing any enthusiasm of any kind is Terry. Getting the crowd into it and pumping up the other guys on the team. Every body else oesnt even look like they want to be on the floor. No one looks like they are having any fun or even trying to put anything into the games.

Uh, not been watching KG much? He's been as energetic as ever!

Kg looked like a corpse last night other then the time Vesey kicked the ball out of bounds

We did not watch the same basketball game.

Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2012, 09:21:52 PM »

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Lack of familiarity
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Re: What do you think is the biggest problem the C's have?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2012, 04:29:32 AM »

Offline Kuberski1

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Roster wise, this team is as good at last year's team.  Whether they can gel to be as good is another question....but if it happens, I think it will take time.   We need to remember how bad we were for the first half of last year....

 

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