Author Topic: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?  (Read 4917 times)

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Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 12:52:39 PM »

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Pretty sure the party that controls the presidency usually votes for the president's budget. I'm also pretty sure it's not the norm for a president to not receive one single budget vote from his party.
And you'd think that there would be a reason for that. As it turns out, there is.

Quote from: Nancy Pelosi
They said this is the President's budget, except it was a caricature of the President's budget, so we voted against it.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2012, 03:07:47 PM »

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Here is some talk about the practical effects of filibuster reform by Matthew Yglesias.

Quote
But it's also because the partisan stars are aligned correctly for it at a time when the Senate Republicans minority isn't the main impediment to progressive reform. With the GOP firmly in control of the House of Representatives, filibuster reform won't entail card check or cap and trade or any other huge legislative initiatives. What it will mean instead is simply that Barack Obama's appointees get confirmed. That would be good for America. But it's also something that I think both parties can accept. Given the ability to randomly obstruct executive appointments, naturally Senators are going to want to do it. But neither party gains systematic advantage from this practice and it's not what anyone in the Senate came to Washington to do. It's just one of these downward spirals that we need to pull out of. A time when a Democratic president has just been re-elected and a Republican House has also just been re-elected is an ideal time for the Senate to de-escalate a bit.

Maybe if there had been no threat of a committed filibuster, Elizabeth Warren would have become head of the newly-created Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (one of the triumphs of the Obama administration) and Scott Brown would have found himself against an opponent he had a better chance of beating.
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Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2012, 03:54:06 PM »

Online BballTim

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Obama/Reid/Pelosi had zero interest in bipartisan compromise when they were working on the health care bill.
Flat-out wrong. They included two huge Republican ideas in the bill: the individual mandate (personal responsibility!), and the insurance exchanges (market-based solution!). The fact that the GOP didn't vote for it, had less to do with the lack of bipartisan compromise, and more to do with the politics of the situation.

  Which republicans were pushing for the individual mandate in 2009?

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2012, 04:06:46 PM »

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Which republicans were pushing for the individual mandate in 2009?
The ones that weren't opposing it for political reasons, or otherwise busy moving the goalposts.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2012, 04:11:55 PM »

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Which republicans were pushing for the individual mandate in 2009?
The ones that weren't opposing it for political reasons, or otherwise busy moving the goalposts.

  Could you be a little more specific, like actual names? Did the republican leadership call for the individual mandate to be included in the health care plan?

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2012, 04:17:17 PM »

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Could you be a little more specific, like actual names? Did the republican leadership call for the individual mandate to be included in the health care plan?
I can give you a number: zero. That's how many members of the GOP didn't change their spots, which made "compromise" difficult.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2012, 04:22:32 PM »

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Could you be a little more specific, like actual names? Did the republican leadership call for the individual mandate to be included in the health care plan?
I can give you a number: zero. That's how many members of the GOP didn't change their spots, which made "compromise" difficult.

  Haha. So, like I said, there was no bipartisan compromise.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2012, 04:25:14 PM »

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Haha. So, like I said, there was no bipartisan compromise.
No, like I said, the GOP flip-flopped. The individual mandate, taken from the GOP's answer to Hillarycare, was evidence of intent to compromise. Not in the case of Obama perhaps (who probably believes it's the best solution), but certainly -- perhaps obviously -- it's a compromise in the case of Pelosi, Reid, and the rest.

Can't really make a charge of non-cooperation in this case.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2012, 04:26:27 PM »

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Which republicans were pushing for the individual mandate in 2009?
The ones that weren't opposing it for political reasons, or otherwise busy moving the goalposts.

  Could you be a little more specific, like actual names? Did the republican leadership call for the individual mandate to be included in the health care plan?

Not directly on point with your question, but speaks to the larger issue:

Quote
“I believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have individual mandates,” Senator Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican, said in June 2009

Interesting article

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2012, 04:41:03 PM »

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Haha. So, like I said, there was no bipartisan compromise.
No, like I said, the GOP flip-flopped. The individual mandate, taken from the GOP's answer to Hillarycare, was evidence of intent to compromise. Not in the case of Obama perhaps (who probably believes it's the best solution), but certainly -- perhaps obviously -- it's a compromise in the case of Pelosi, Reid, and the rest.

Can't really make a charge of non-cooperation in this case.

  The fact that the democrat's plan contains something that was supported by some republicans many years in the past is not in any way evidence of compromise or cooperation. If you follow the link in the post above mine you'll see that the mandate was put in as a compromise with the insurance companies, not republicans.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2012, 04:44:24 PM »

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Is there any evidence that Republicans were more willing to compromise than Democrats?
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Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2012, 04:50:08 PM »

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The fact that the democrat's plan contains something that was supported by some republicans many years in the past is not in any way evidence of compromise or cooperation.
A non-defensible point. Democrats largely don't want a mandate, they want single payer. The individual mandate was an idea of the Heritage Foundation, and was supported by the GOP the last time that they had something resembling a credible solution to the health care issue.

The fact that they walked it back when it was politically convenient, doesn't show that the Democrats were unwilling to compromise, it shows that the Republicans were unwilling to compromise. Democrats walked off their blue sky demands to attract GOP support, Republicans did nothing of the sort in return.

Grassley is one, thanks Bombastic for finding that quote (I was looking for it). Snowe is another: Obama heavily courted her to support the legislation. She did, in fact, support it in conference committee and voted it for it there.

Quote
If you follow the link in the post above mine you'll see that the mandate was put in as a compromise with the insurance companies, not republicans.
Insurance companies don't have a vote. They also have little popular support. They are beneficiaries of the mandate, not bargaining partners.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2012, 05:03:38 PM »

Online BballTim

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The fact that the democrat's plan contains something that was supported by some republicans many years in the past is not in any way evidence of compromise or cooperation.
A non-defensible point. Democrats largely don't want a mandate, they want single payer. The individual mandate was an idea of the Heritage Foundation, and was supported by the GOP the last time that they had something resembling a credible solution to the health care issue.

The fact that they walked it back when it was politically convenient, doesn't show that the Democrats were unwilling to compromise, it shows that the Republicans were unwilling to compromise. Democrats walked off their blue sky demands to attract GOP support, Republicans did nothing of the sort in return.

  Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I could just as easily claim that some democrats voted for the Bush tax cuts so attempting to preserve them for everyone is evidence that republicans are compromising over the budget talks.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2012, 05:21:56 PM »

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I guess that you are conceding the point about Grassley and Snowe, since you ignored it.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I could just as easily claim that some democrats voted for the Bush tax cuts so attempting to preserve them for everyone is evidence that republicans are compromising over the budget talks.
You could claim it, but you'd be wrong, as that's a false analogy.

I'd say the GOP is compromising on the budget talks, at least as far as public statements have suggested. This isn't a hindsight analysis like the ACA debate, this is something in the future, so it's a different situation. Also, the Bush tax cuts have a sunset: inertia means that they expire.

Re: Will filibuster reform be the Senate's first big test?
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2012, 05:31:01 PM »

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^ I'd also add to this, as supporting evidence, the larding up of the ARRA with largely ineffective tax cuts. Also something that's not a Democratic priority, but something that Obama did to reach out to the GOP.

Note that while there were mistakes made WRT the ARRA (letting Pelosi write too much of it, for one), that doesn't detract from the point I'm making about bipartisan overtures.

 

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