Author Topic: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"  (Read 3599 times)

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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2012, 09:45:57 AM »

Offline action781

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Haha that is pretty funny

Personally, I've always thought Lebron's speed is overrated. 

Don't get me wrong, he is crazy fast for a guy of his size...but people talk about him being the fastest guy in the league, and I don't see it.

IMHO Rondo and Barbosa are both much faster end-to-end than Lebron is. 

Lebron is just scary because his speed (combined with his size/weight) makes me the equivalent of a freight train if you happened to get in front of him when he's moving at full speed.

have you seen the chase down blocks?  how does he catch up to these guys if he's not faster than them?  and if you're going to attribute it to him not having the ball, why wouldn't other players be able to do the same defensively?  lebron definitely is that fast.

  What's the value of Rondo chasing down LeBron the way LeBron does on his chase down blocks? To turn the dunk into an and-1?

If Rondo's that much faster and is the one without the ball, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA, I think a strip should at least be in the realm of possibilities.

Yet I've never seen Rondo, nor any of these other faster guards do this to Lebron... not even one single time in the past few years.  Yet I have seen Rondo have to pass the ball to avoid being chase-down blocked by Lebron.  Does size have something to do with it?  Sure.  But about 98% of the nba is taller than Rondo and I haven't seen anyone else catch up to him, so I don't buy this downplaying of Lebron's speed.
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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2012, 10:01:23 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Haha that is pretty funny

Personally, I've always thought Lebron's speed is overrated. 

Don't get me wrong, he is crazy fast for a guy of his size...but people talk about him being the fastest guy in the league, and I don't see it.

IMHO Rondo and Barbosa are both much faster end-to-end than Lebron is. 

Lebron is just scary because his speed (combined with his size/weight) makes me the equivalent of a freight train if you happened to get in front of him when he's moving at full speed.

have you seen the chase down blocks?  how does he catch up to these guys if he's not faster than them?  and if you're going to attribute it to him not having the ball, why wouldn't other players be able to do the same defensively?  lebron definitely is that fast.

  What's the value of Rondo chasing down LeBron the way LeBron does on his chase down blocks? To turn the dunk into an and-1?

If Rondo's that much faster and is the one without the ball, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA, I think a strip should at least be in the realm of possibilities.

Yet I've never seen Rondo, nor any of these other faster guards do this to Lebron... not even one single time in the past few years.  Yet I have seen Rondo have to pass the ball to avoid being chase-down blocked by Lebron.  Does size have something to do with it?  Sure.  But about 98% of the nba is taller than Rondo and I haven't seen anyone else catch up to him, so I don't buy this downplaying of Lebron's speed.

If you think Lebron is faster than Rondo or any other speedy guard in the NBA you are in the minority.
 
Chase down blocks isn't really a great example of this. Plus I've seen numerous times where lebron has been chased down and "wrapped up" to prevent a dunk or try to prevent it.

Lebron is extremely fast and mobile for his size but if you are talking about pure speed I think guys like Rondo would blow him out of the water. I don't even think its a fair comparison. Its like comparing boxers in 2 different weight classes it doesn't really make sense

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2012, 10:04:15 AM »

Offline Chelm

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Haha that is pretty funny

Personally, I've always thought Lebron's speed is overrated. 

Don't get me wrong, he is crazy fast for a guy of his size...but people talk about him being the fastest guy in the league, and I don't see it.

IMHO Rondo and Barbosa are both much faster end-to-end than Lebron is. 

Lebron is just scary because his speed (combined with his size/weight) makes me the equivalent of a freight train if you happened to get in front of him when he's moving at full speed.

have you seen the chase down blocks?  how does he catch up to these guys if he's not faster than them?  and if you're going to attribute it to him not having the ball, why wouldn't other players be able to do the same defensively?  lebron definitely is that fast.

  What's the value of Rondo chasing down LeBron the way LeBron does on his chase down blocks? To turn the dunk into an and-1?

If Rondo's that much faster and is the one without the ball, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA, I think a strip should at least be in the realm of possibilities.

Yet I've never seen Rondo, nor any of these other faster guards do this to Lebron... not even one single time in the past few years.  Yet I have seen Rondo have to pass the ball to avoid being chase-down blocked by Lebron.  Does size have something to do with it?  Sure.  But about 98% of the nba is taller than Rondo and I haven't seen anyone else catch up to him, so I don't buy this downplaying of Lebron's speed.

If you think Lebron is faster than Rondo or any other speedy guard in the NBA you are in the minority.
 
Chase down blocks isn't really a great example of this. Plus I've seen numerous times where lebron has been chased down and "wrapped up" to prevent a dunk or try to prevent it.

Lebron is extremely fast and mobile for his size but if you are talking about pure speed I think guys like Rondo would blow him out of the water. I don't even think its a fair comparison. Its like comparing boxers in 2 different weight classes it doesn't really make sense
Not that I actually disagree, but it's worth noting:

Lebron: 6'8, 250
Bolt:  6'5, 210
Rondo:  6'1, 186

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 10:05:41 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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He then continued... "my defense is impregnable, I want to eat your kids"

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2012, 10:07:17 AM »

Offline action781

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.
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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2012, 10:08:34 AM »

Offline action781

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Haha that is pretty funny

Personally, I've always thought Lebron's speed is overrated. 

Don't get me wrong, he is crazy fast for a guy of his size...but people talk about him being the fastest guy in the league, and I don't see it.

IMHO Rondo and Barbosa are both much faster end-to-end than Lebron is. 

Lebron is just scary because his speed (combined with his size/weight) makes me the equivalent of a freight train if you happened to get in front of him when he's moving at full speed.

have you seen the chase down blocks?  how does he catch up to these guys if he's not faster than them?  and if you're going to attribute it to him not having the ball, why wouldn't other players be able to do the same defensively?  lebron definitely is that fast.

  What's the value of Rondo chasing down LeBron the way LeBron does on his chase down blocks? To turn the dunk into an and-1?

If Rondo's that much faster and is the one without the ball, and is one of the best defenders in the NBA, I think a strip should at least be in the realm of possibilities.

Yet I've never seen Rondo, nor any of these other faster guards do this to Lebron... not even one single time in the past few years.  Yet I have seen Rondo have to pass the ball to avoid being chase-down blocked by Lebron.  Does size have something to do with it?  Sure.  But about 98% of the nba is taller than Rondo and I haven't seen anyone else catch up to him, so I don't buy this downplaying of Lebron's speed.

If you think Lebron is faster than Rondo or any other speedy guard in the NBA you are in the minority.
 
Chase down blocks isn't really a great example of this. Plus I've seen numerous times where lebron has been chased down and "wrapped up" to prevent a dunk or try to prevent it.

Lebron is extremely fast and mobile for his size but if you are talking about pure speed I think guys like Rondo would blow him out of the water. I don't even think its a fair comparison. Its like comparing boxers in 2 different weight classes it doesn't really make sense

I think I've gotten off track with this...

My original claim was to dispute that "Lebron's speed is overrated"

I think he is really among the fastest players in the league.  It is not my opinion that he is clearly faster than Rondo.
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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2012, 10:09:56 AM »

Offline CapnDunks

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To chase a guy down and get a block Lebron only has to be faster without the ball than the other player is with the ball. Also even the best finishers don't maintain that speed when they go up for the dunk/lay up.

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2012, 10:17:15 AM »

Offline shiggins

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.


Umm....Bruce Bowen was absurdly aggressive.  This guy didnt give you not 2 inches to breathe.  Unless i read your point wrong?

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2012, 10:29:25 AM »

Offline action781

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.


Umm....Bruce Bowen was absurdly aggressive.  This guy didnt give you not 2 inches to breathe.  Unless i read your point wrong?

Nope, didn't read it wrong.  Watch some youtube videos or something.  You'll see him playing about 1-1.5 arms length off of his guy usually.  The perfect amount of space so he doesn't get burned off the dribble yet still able to contest the jumper.
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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2012, 10:55:24 AM »

Offline Chelm

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.


Umm....Bruce Bowen was absurdly aggressive.  This guy didnt give you not 2 inches to breathe.  Unless i read your point wrong?

Nope, didn't read it wrong.  Watch some youtube videos or something.  You'll see him playing about 1-1.5 arms length off of his guy usually.  The perfect amount of space so he doesn't get burned off the dribble yet still able to contest the jumper.
This is right.  Younger Wade was more of the 'in your face' defender, which requires insane athleticism, which Bowen didn't have in his best years.  The way he defended (a step off the defender) was ideal for his talent set.  If he was tenaciously on someone like Kobe, he would've been torched.  Instead, he fared pretty well, forcing jumpers by staying on front of his man rather than relying on help defense behind him when he got burned.

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2012, 10:56:49 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.


Umm....Bruce Bowen was absurdly aggressive.  This guy didnt give you not 2 inches to breathe.  Unless i read your point wrong?

Nope, didn't read it wrong.  Watch some youtube videos or something.  You'll see him playing about 1-1.5 arms length off of his guy usually.  The perfect amount of space so he doesn't get burned off the dribble yet still able to contest the jumper.

  We know he was close enough to be able to stick his foot under jump shooters before they had a chance to land from their jumps...

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2012, 11:10:16 AM »

Offline td450

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There are a lot of different types of speed. First step speed, three step speed, 40 yard dash speed, etc... and no one is equally great at all of them.

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2012, 12:45:47 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I seen quite a few people who were pretty good at all of them.  Granted everyone has strengths, speed of thought is another and Rondo would be excellent at that one, Larry was too.

Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2012, 01:09:13 PM »

Offline action781

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Nope, didn't read it wrong.  Watch some youtube videos or something.  You'll see him playing about 1-1.5 arms length off of his guy usually.  The perfect amount of space so he doesn't get burned off the dribble yet still able to contest the jumper.

  We know he was close enough to be able to stick his foot under jump shooters before they had a chance to land from their jumps...

He used to be so awkward and obvious about it too.  He would literally be a solid 2 feet away from the defender at the time of the jumper, jump to contest the shot, and then scissor kick his legs to plant that foot underneath the shooter.  So dirty and such an unnatural movement.

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Re: Rondo "I'm faster than Lebron, would beat Ray in a race running backwards"
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2012, 01:21:01 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Actually to be completely honest (and even on a Celtics forum I'll probably get flamed for this) I just don't think Lebron is as good a defensive player as people say he is.

I very rarely see Lebron get right up in a players face (the way Gary Payton, Michael Jordan or even Avery Bradley has) and force them into commiting awkward turnovers.  I don't see Lebron as a 'lock down' defender at all. 
 
All of Lebron's defensive ability seems to pretty much relies on his size and athleticism.   If he gets stops it's becuase he's blocking a shot, or getting a steal.

I'd say that he is a very good (but not elite) on ball defender.  In fact I would say that D-Wade at his peak was a far more aggressive and disruptive than Lebron is right now. 

I think he's a better offensive player than he is a defensive player.   Just my opinion though!

He's an unbelievably versatile defender.  He can guard almost anyone 1-4 in this league.  He was put on Derrick Rose in the 4th quarter in the playoffs 2 years ago and completely shut him down.  He held Pierce to atrocious shooting %s in every game of last season's playoffs.  To be honest, and I'm a huge Pierce fan, but when Pierce has the ball isolated against Lebron, Lebron looks far more comfortable than other defenders do and Pierce has been much more willing to pass the ball rather than try to take him.

You don't have to get up in people's faces to be a good defender.  As a matter of fact, when you do, you're usually putting yourself at risk to get beat off the dribble.  Ask players who have gone against Bruce Bowen if you need to be super aggressive to be effective on defense.

I think Lebron is the 2nd or 3rd best defender in the NBA behind Dwight and maybe Tyson Chandler.  Iguodala is a close 4th.  I think Bradley will soon earn his way into that discussion, but just hasn't shown it over enough minutes yet.

It's a mistake to leave KG out of the list of top five defenders.

 

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