Author Topic: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen  (Read 1766 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« on: November 08, 2012, 07:25:51 AM »

Offline chenaren

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 245
  • Tommy Points: 24
At that time (summer 2010), Tony just did a phenomenal job on guarding Wade and Lebron in playoffs, and the Heat formed their big 3. Why didn't Danny actively persuade Tony to stay? He can be a real difference maker when facing the Heat, not to mention it only costs 3 to 4 million a year while Jeff Green gets paid 9. In my opinion, this might be one of the worst moves Danny has made.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 07:27:05 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
He wanted to start.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 07:46:32 AM »

Offline Kiorrik

  • Global Moderator
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7764
  • Tommy Points: 1075
  • pɹɐnƃ ʇuıod
    • AboutaDirk.com
I think they made an offer, but Tony decided to go to Memphis. Yes, it sucks, but it's not Danny's fault.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 08:08:05 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23826
  • Tommy Points: -29119
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 08:57:08 AM »

Offline CDawg834

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 619
  • Tommy Points: 56
Please tell me we aren't starting the Tony Allen debate again...it's been 2 years, and he was a marginal player who was a complete disaster on offense.  Let it go.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 09:06:24 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9718
  • Tommy Points: 541
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doc said at the time that it wasn't a contractual issue and Allen wanted a bigger role with the Grizzlies.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 09:16:21 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Global Moderator
  • Bob Cousy
  • **************************
  • Posts: 26432
  • Tommy Points: 1005
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doc said at the time that it wasn't a contractual issue and Allen wanted a bigger role with the Grizzlies.
I thought they offered 2, Grizzlies offered 3, and the C's thought they'd get a chance to match that sort of offer.

Instead Tony took the Memphis contract because he wanted a bigger role. Doc and Ainge seemed to be legitimately shocked that it had happened that way.

(Makes me wonder if the agent said they'd get a chance to match "ie start a bidding war" and Tony overruled him)

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 09:26:36 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8317
  • Tommy Points: 653
TA also never said it was about money. TA made the right choice for himself, pushing Mayo to the bench in his first season with Memphis.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 09:28:50 AM »

Online mgent

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6067
  • Tommy Points: 645
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
But he traded for Green instead, meaning a big free agent splash wasn't the most important thing on his mind.  Unless he planned on renouncing Green.  I personally don't think 3-4 mil in salary is truly crippling to the cap when you get an elite talent in return.

And speaking of hindsight, it's too bad he didn't stick out those two years because he would've made it completely out of Ray's shadow.  Rondo, Tony, AND Bradley would be such a devastating rotation.  Literally the 3 best backcourt defenders in the league (with Thabo in there somewhere). LeBron/Wade would be in tears, and not even they could do anything with those 3 on the break.

Current rosters/salaries aside, I'd trade Green for Tony straight up and not lose any sleep.  Throw their respecting salaries in there and it's a steal.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 09:50:19 AM »

Online wdleehi

  • Forums ViceRoy
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31013
  • Tommy Points: 1381
  • Pre-school artwork
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
But he traded for Green instead, meaning a big free agent splash wasn't the most important thing on his mind.  Unless he planned on renouncing Green.  I personally don't think 3-4 mil in salary is truly crippling to the cap when you get an elite talent in return.

And speaking of hindsight, it's too bad he didn't stick out those two years because he would've made it completely out of Ray's shadow.  Rondo, Tony, AND Bradley would be such a devastating rotation.  Literally the 3 best backcourt defenders in the league (with Thabo in there somewhere). LeBron/Wade would be in tears, and not even they could do anything with those 3 on the break.

Current rosters/salaries aside, I'd trade Green for Tony straight up and not lose any sleep.  Throw their respecting salaries in there and it's a steal.


Green was in his last year so they could have just said "good bye" if they needed that space.


I don't have an issue with losing TA because of what was going on.


The bigger issue was not properly replacing him in that off season. 


Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 09:54:52 AM »

Online mgent

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6067
  • Tommy Points: 645
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doc said at the time that it wasn't a contractual issue and Allen wanted a bigger role with the Grizzlies.
I thought they offered 2, Grizzlies offered 3, and the C's thought they'd get a chance to match that sort of offer.

Instead Tony took the Memphis contract because he wanted a bigger role. Doc and Ainge seemed to be legitimately shocked that it had happened that way.

(Makes me wonder if the agent said they'd get a chance to match "ie start a bidding war" and Tony overruled him)
Yeah that's how I remember it, although there were also reports about him feeling less than wanted by the Celtics.  I understand how basketball is a strict business with Ainge, but we've heard the EXACT same thing from MULTIPLE players over the past years.  At one point I believe Roy Hobbs even made a thread encouraging discussion about whether or not all the free agent incidents/misunderstandings were a result of our front office's negotiating tactics.

After hearing nothing for the past 3 weeks except how unwanted/alienated Ray Allen felt and how nobody called him and told him what he wanted to hear during the offseason, I've kinda accepted this annual deja-vu.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 09:56:46 AM »

Offline jambr380

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2541
  • Tommy Points: 87
Tony is quite the defensive presence, but he wasn't going to have a much larger role on the team than he already had and that was a major part of the problem. Sure he could have taken some minutes away from Ray, but I like Avery much more than TA - especially his offense. The team still runs its offense through Paul at the 3 and that wasn't about to change.

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 10:27:11 AM »

Offline 2short

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Tommy Points: 317
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Doc said at the time that it wasn't a contractual issue and Allen wanted a bigger role with the Grizzlies.
that is how i remember it as well, tony was stuck behind ray & paul
now it took tony 6-7 years to get (most) of the bonehead plays out of his system, if he didn't improve that aspect of his game he probably would have been traded anyways
bradley might not have tony's size but he is a much greater force as a defender for the guard positions

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 10:40:56 AM »

Online mgent

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6067
  • Tommy Points: 645
It all came down to years.  As I recall, Danny offered two, and Tony wanted three.  In hindsight, it seems like an easy decision:  Tony as an elite defender, and played very well as a backup SF (a position we later traded our starting center to fill).

However, in Danny's defense:

* Tony was injury prone.  At the time, he had missed 28, 36, 7, 49, an 31 games in the previous five seasons.  Committing guaranteed money to him for three years was a risk;

* Danny was preserving cap flexibility.  Between the pending, then-unknown CBA and a ton of expiring contracts all set to time out at the same time, Danny wanted to preserve the opportunity to make a big free agent splash.  Tony's salary could have impacted that.
But he traded for Green instead, meaning a big free agent splash wasn't the most important thing on his mind.  Unless he planned on renouncing Green.  I personally don't think 3-4 mil in salary is truly crippling to the cap when you get an elite talent in return.

And speaking of hindsight, it's too bad he didn't stick out those two years because he would've made it completely out of Ray's shadow.  Rondo, Tony, AND Bradley would be such a devastating rotation.  Literally the 3 best backcourt defenders in the league (with Thabo in there somewhere). LeBron/Wade would be in tears, and not even they could do anything with those 3 on the break.

Current rosters/salaries aside, I'd trade Green for Tony straight up and not lose any sleep.  Throw their respecting salaries in there and it's a steal.


Green was in his last year so they could have just said "good bye" if they needed that space.


I don't have an issue with losing TA because of what was going on.


The bigger issue was not properly replacing him in that off season.
Right but the year after that when he was hurt, there was all that talk about him still being a part of the team, him being part of our future, him having the potential to become a better defender than Perk.  All before Dwight waived his ETO.  Obviously that could've been us keeping our options open, and we could've renounced him anyway, but it never sounded like he was just a rental.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: I still don't understand why Danny didn't resign Tony Allen
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 10:49:10 AM »

Offline Brendan

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2988
  • Tommy Points: 72
    • Self Assay
Tony Allen is a role player, as such he needs to be in a role that works well.

Rajon Rondo and Tony Allen on the court at the same time (at least at time when TA was a FA) was a very bad thing. Plus money/years. Plus size of roll.

I think Tony needed more minutes to get his groove back (which he had never really recovered since the injury in 07.) He's 31 and not a good shooter, decent chance he drops off a cliff sooner than you expect.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog