Author Topic: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good  (Read 10329 times)

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Offline BballTim

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 08:08:44 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.

Obama 332 to Romney 206. It's a rout. The 5th time in last 6 Presidential elections Republicans lost the popular vote. President Obama overwhelmingly won female vote, youth vote, Hispanic vote, the Black vote, Asian vote, etc.... all minority groups 8 to 2. And the ways things are shaping up 2016 isn't looking too good for Republican either.

  I haven't checked this, but I heard that Obama did worse in every state except for two of them, and in those both of the increases were by less than 1%. Hardly a rout, especially for an incumbent. Obama's the first president since FDR to win re-election with less of the popular vote than he got in his first election. Nixon and Reagan both got over 500 electoral votes in their second elections, That's a rout. Obama won a closely contested race.

Offline Rondo2287

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 08:23:45 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.


EDIT: and im not saying every GOP member is a pillar of morals, but im just saying the choice was clear here in MA and two of the most dispacble people to run for public office were elected.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 08:30:21 AM by Rondo2287 »
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Offline Donoghus

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 08:53:22 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.

Obama 332 to Romney 206. It's a rout. The 5th time in last 6 Presidential elections Republicans lost the popular vote. President Obama overwhelmingly won female vote, youth vote, Hispanic vote, the Black vote, Asian vote, etc.... all minority groups 8 to 2. And the ways things are shaping up 2016 isn't looking too good for Republican either.

  I haven't checked this, but I heard that Obama did worse in every state except for two of them, and in those both of the increases were by less than 1%. Hardly a rout, especially for an incumbent. Obama's the first president since FDR to win re-election with less of the popular vote than he got in his first election. Nixon and Reagan both got over 500 electoral votes in their second elections, That's a rout. Obama won a closely contested race.

Whatever the semantics of it are, the Republicans faced an incumbent president on the ropes who was primed to be picked off and they couldn't get the job done. In a recession with high unemployment numbers and they still couldn't get the guy out of office.  They got their butts kicked with the Latino vote (only the fastest growing demographic in the country) and trialled in several other demographics.  That's troublesome going forward if you consider the way the dynamics of the US population makeup are changing.  Maybe it wasn't a rout but I wouldn't consider it a moral victory or something to hang a hat on given the conditions of the country going into the election.

Republican Party just needs to look itself in the mirror and see where to make changes to broaden appeal.  If they can get their act together there, they should be fine. Certainly, the reports of kicking the dirt in the GOP are greatly exaggerated so I'm not buying that. 

They just need to figure things out. 


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Online Moranis

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 08:56:01 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.

Obama 332 to Romney 206. It's a rout. The 5th time in last 6 Presidential elections Republicans lost the popular vote. President Obama overwhelmingly won female vote, youth vote, Hispanic vote, the Black vote, Asian vote, etc.... all minority groups 8 to 2. And the ways things are shaping up 2016 isn't looking too good for Republican either.

  I haven't checked this, but I heard that Obama did worse in every state except for two of them, and in those both of the increases were by less than 1%. Hardly a rout, especially for an incumbent. Obama's the first president since FDR to win re-election with less of the popular vote than he got in his first election. Nixon and Reagan both got over 500 electoral votes in their second elections, That's a rout. Obama won a closely contested race.
Obama had 365 electoral votes in 2008, so he clearly lost some of them this time.  That said it wasn't really a close race, it was just closer than last time.
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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 09:16:25 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.
Yeah.

First, the popular vote margin is one of the smallest in recent history (third smallest in the last 10 elections, sixth smallest in the last 20).

Second, Obama lost in excess of 6 million people in the popular vote tally as compared to the last elections.

Third, Ron Paul would have stood much better chance if half of his ideas weren't completely off the rocker.

And lastly, the GOP _is_ in trouble. They have to let go of the social policy from the medieval ages, and shed the weirdos that are making them look bad.
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Offline Rondo2287

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 09:17:23 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.
Yeah.

First, the popular vote margin is one of the smallest in recent history (third smallest in the last 10 elections, sixth smallest in the last 20).

Second, Obama lost in excess of 6 million people in the popular vote tally as compared to the last elections.

Third, Ron Paul would have stood much better chance if half of his ideas weren't completely off the rocker.

I agree with all 3!
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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 09:19:52 AM »
Losing "big"?!?

One half of one percent of the popular vote ... a long, long way from a resounding victory.

Wow ... talk about spin.
Yeah.

First, the popular vote margin is one of the smallest in recent history (third smallest in the last 10 elections, sixth smallest in the last 20).

Second, Obama lost in excess of 6 million people in the popular vote tally as compared to the last elections.

Third, Ron Paul would have stood much better chance if half of his ideas weren't completely off the rocker.

I agree with all 3!
Stop the presses, Rondo2287 and I agree on something :)

I added a fourth, btw. I'm sorry, but as long as guys like Akin and Mourdok are up front and center, it's hard to take GOP ideas on social policy seriously.
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Offline foulweatherfan

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2012, 09:24:02 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.

Not that you're personally responsible or anything, but "vote for us or you're bad people" is a good example of the kind of rhetoric that turns off independent voters.

I've said this before, but it's probably going to take at least one more election loss before a lot of the GOP base stops pointing fingers outward and starts considering that many of their positions (gay marriage, tax cuts for the wealthy, reproductive issues, etc) are unpopular, and their demographics are shrinking.  The strategists and wonks see the writing on the wall, but they're got an uphill climb to drag the base with them. 

Offline guava_wrench

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 09:42:35 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.


EDIT: and im not saying every GOP member is a pillar of morals, but im just saying the choice was clear here in MA and two of the most dispacble people to run for public office were elected.
Sounds like you are overwhelmed by partisanship. MA did a great job, and we had no David Dukes here. All our major candidates for both parties were good choices, despite negative ads on both sides. Unfortunately, some people buy the negative ads hook, line and sinker.

Offline Rondo2287

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 10:02:16 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.


EDIT: and im not saying every GOP member is a pillar of morals, but im just saying the choice was clear here in MA and two of the most dispacble people to run for public office were elected.
Sounds like you are overwhelmed by partisanship. MA did a great job, and we had no David Dukes here. All our major candidates for both parties were good choices, despite negative ads on both sides. Unfortunately, some people buy the negative ads hook, line and sinker.

I don't think so, somebody who lies about knowledge of his family running an offshore gambling rings and laundering millions of dollars through his personal bank account should not be re-elected.  Especially after his wife and brothers and law have said that he knew about the whole thing an that he threw his family under the bus.

And second, somebody that uses and entire race of people's suffering for her own personal gain is really the lowest of the low. 

I personally believe that voting for either of those people means that a person has lost their moral compass or never had one. 


Edit: its also very possible that people just don't care about the morality and character of those representing them. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 10:15:33 AM by Rondo2287 »
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Offline nickagneta

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 10:26:46 AM »
This election has taught the Republican Party that they can not win with just the "white" vote. A majority of their platform is dedicated to the principles of the religious white middle and upper class. That vote will never again in this country win a Presidential election all by itself.

That is why the Republican Party is in trouble. The Latino populous is growing at such a rate that it could be possible that both Texas and Arizona become swing states in 2016 but most certainly by 2020 if those Latino voters continue to vote Democratic at a 75%-25% rate or larger.

Obama was a incumbent that should not have been re-elected based on his record. The fact that the Electoral College vote was not even close showcases the problems that are deep within the Republican Party.

1. They need to stop with the class warfare and embrace the fact that the poor, elderly, and sick need assistance and that a small percentage of fraud exists in the system but is tolerable because of the millions of other housing, food stamps, Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid help. There best bet would be to embrace the programs but look at eliminate fraud in the system with stricter oversight.

2. Their stances on social some social issue have to change.

    a. Consent to civil unions for Gays and that the word marriage will be
stricken for all laws in the US and replaced with the words civil unions. Only churches can provide a marriage.
    b. Time to let women make their own decisions regarding their bodies. Let the law stand.
    c. Stop with the super hard line stance on immigration. Do what Reagan did. Grant amnesty for all undocumented workers, go after the companies employing these workers, then strength the borders with returning soldiers from Afghanistan and create a hard line immigration policy going forward that rids "safe zones" for illegals in the US and allows for local police departments to share information on illegals with the national Immigration Department.
   d. Before the Dems do it go for a national Amendment legalize a known grown product and then set up laws that tax the heck out of it, like tobacco and booze.

3. Return hard time to the roots of fiscal conservatism. No more pork allowed in laws to get votes. Return to your roots and attempt to start sending more rights back to the states.

4. Be at the forefront of campaign and voter reform. Nationalize all election laws and make things standardized. Show that you want no more dirty politics in election. Make America see that you are the party that is stepping away from the influence of the big money corporations  and that you want all elections to be run fairly and have all Americans to have access to have your vote count.
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Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 10:29:56 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.


EDIT: and im not saying every GOP member is a pillar of morals, but im just saying the choice was clear here in MA and two of the most dispacble people to run for public office were elected.
Sounds like you are overwhelmed by partisanship. MA did a great job, and we had no David Dukes here. All our major candidates for both parties were good choices, despite negative ads on both sides. Unfortunately, some people buy the negative ads hook, line and sinker.

I don't think so, somebody who lies about knowledge of his family running an offshore gambling rings and laundering millions of dollars through his personal bank account should not be re-elected.  Especially after his wife and brothers and law have said that he knew about the whole thing an that he threw his family under the bus.

And second, somebody that uses and entire race of people's suffering for her own personal gain is really the lowest of the low. 

I personally believe that voting for either of those people means that a person has lost their moral compass or never had one. 


Edit: its also very possible that people just don't care about the morality and character of those representing them.

Clearly. See: Clinton, Bill.
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Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2012, 10:53:44 AM »
John Adam's said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I don't particularly care about the religous part, but after what I saw happen in Massachusetts, its clear that we here are a people lacking morals. 

If the GOP is in trouble its because we as a people are in trouble.


EDIT: and im not saying every GOP member is a pillar of morals, but im just saying the choice was clear here in MA and two of the most dispacble people to run for public office were elected.
Sounds like you are overwhelmed by partisanship. MA did a great job, and we had no David Dukes here. All our major candidates for both parties were good choices, despite negative ads on both sides. Unfortunately, some people buy the negative ads hook, line and sinker.

I don't think so, somebody who lies about knowledge of his family running an offshore gambling rings and laundering millions of dollars through his personal bank account should not be re-elected.  Especially after his wife and brothers and law have said that he knew about the whole thing an that he threw his family under the bus.

And second, somebody that uses and entire race of people's suffering for her own personal gain is really the lowest of the low. 

I personally believe that voting for either of those people means that a person has lost their moral compass or never had one. 


Edit: its also very possible that people just don't care about the morality and character of those representing them.

Clearly. See: Clinton, Bill.

Disagree with both of you about the alleged loss of a moral compass. Republicans got all up in arms about Warren. Democrats didn't seem to have much of a problem with the accusations brought against her. Is that because republicans are just coincidentally more moral in general?

Of course not. Republicans were running a hotly contested race against a challenger. People were inundated with attack ads daily in MA. It skews your opinion over time. To me, it seems like Elizabeth Warren did some ill-advised but trivial garbage. My biggest problem is her possible plagiarism of a recipe from a NYT piece.

Again, my biggest problem with a US Senator is that she might have potentially plagiarized a recipe from an old NYT piece. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

I think the campaigns on both sides did a great job ramping up the feelings from both sides and demonizing the opponents, and their supporters. There isn't a 'moral bankruptcy' problem in the US. There is a 'political radicalization' problem.

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Offline angryguy77

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 11:03:43 AM »
I don't think they are in that bad of trouble.   They still have a lot of capital and finance behind them and spending power.

Where the GOP fails is in it's inability to be more inclusive.   It has sadly become a party of angry white men and value (albeit selective) voters.  They have to get rid of some of their medieval thoughts on women and take a long hard look at how they treat minorities that are rapidly becoming the minority.  Try to appeal more to the middle class where the majority of people live in.  Roughly 12-18% of people identify as secular.   A lot of Americans believe in legalization of Marijuana and Gay Rights.   The Grand Old Party is going to have to adapt or die.

Now I have heard some folk suggest they lost because Romney was not conservative enough.   He didn't rise in the national polls until he self moderated in the debates.   Thinking like this will lead to a generational loss of power for them in the White House.  Now they control the HOUSE and truth be told 51 of the 55 Tea Party freshmen won re-election.  But some notable tea party guys with out there ideology went down like Allen West (FLA) and Joe Walsh (ILL).   Take this with a grain of salt too as gerrymandering protected a lot of these folk.  Others like Bachman barely won, so if folks believe they can simply maintain the status quo they are in for a rude awakening as the electorate continues to change.

Personally, I think they can fix things.   I am an independent and I don't care for either party.   The GOP would appeal to more if they didn't have the religious right dominating them.  Guys like Murdoch and Akins did them no favors.  I think fiscal conservatism is something many care about.  A lot think the government is wasteful in it's spending but a lot of the rest of the platform is dated.   This isn't the 1950's anymore Wally....
\


Did you even watch their convention? They had numerous people up there that were not "angry" or "white" and it didn't matter, the left still spouted the same misinformation and characterizations that are in your post. The party you speak of, only exists in the minds of liberals and the media. It is not based in reality.



I'm also a little taken back by all this talk about how the party should throw it's religious base under the bus. How the religious values that the party holds are somehow not popular with America. If that was the case would the DNC have steamrolled the opposition within its own party to put God back into its platform? It was only after they realized that it wasn't a popular move with the country that they put Him back in. I found that whole thing quite funny to see, the party that preaches "Don't force your values on me" forced God back into its platform over the objections of the majority at it convention.

The party of not pushing values on others had no problem forcing its values on the Catholic church through Obamacare. The same party that was telling us the evil GOP was going to take away birth control has a man, who doesn't believe in the use of any birth control, give the closing prayer at its convention. Does the left really not believe people should have another person's values pushed on them, or is it ok as long as the values align with their agenda? I'd have to say it's the latter.

Christians still make up a large voting block, if the GOP tells them to take a hike, they will insure themselves losses in election after election. It would have the same effect as the DNC telling the people on gov programs to get bent.


I wonder when people are going to see through the crap and stop buying the lies that the DNC and MSM puts out about conservatives and republicans. The GOP was and is not going to take away birth control, they were not going to force women to work for slave labor, our nominee held a more moderate view on abortion than that of the party, yet we were fed lies that he was going to ham on the pro choice movement(note: this is not a discussion on abortion, just an example of a misconception). 

Our candidate was not some far right extremist by any stretch. It wasn't the far right ideas of the party that lost this election. How could it, when the nominee didn't champion those values?

The democrats accuse the republicans of being sexists and bigots every single election. But it was they who created the Life of Julia where if you really look at what its saying, told women they cannot make it in life without big brother's help. That should have insulted women and anyone who saw what message that story was trying to convey. According to the DNC, women are not strong enough or resilient enough to lead a successful life without the government. The hypocrisy of the left makes me want to blow chunks.


The disgust that many show for religion in this country is in itself disgusting. Do we want forced religion on people? No. But when religious values were embraced in this country, we were better off. Before the social cleansing of religion from the public view took place, we lived in a country where families were stronger, metal detectors were not needed at schools, teenage pregnancy was a shock, not the norm, parents could let their kids play outside without much worry, and their minds were not corrupted with the garbage that is on TV. Kids have no innocence anymore because of the secularism forced on us by the left. The tossing out of the values that helped build this country have contributed greatly to the societal ills we have today.








 

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