Author Topic: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good  (Read 28112 times)

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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #90 on: November 08, 2012, 04:11:49 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I have a slightly off topic question. I read an interesting article showing that year to year immigration/emigration does not change in presidential election years, so the whole "if x wins i'm moving to y" thing is pretty much confirmed as an empty threat.

So, we all hear of (usually liberals) saying "if Bush wins, I'm seriously moving to [Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK, Japan]!"

My question is, is there a conservative equivalent?

Were there a lot of "if Obama wins, I swear I'm moving to xxx?"

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #91 on: November 08, 2012, 04:16:35 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I have a slightly off topic question. I read an interesting article showing that year to year immigration/emigration does not change in presidential election years, so the whole "if x wins i'm moving to y" thing is pretty much confirmed as an empty threat.

So, we all hear of (usually liberals) saying "if Bush wins, I'm seriously moving to [Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK, Japan]!"

My question is, is there a conservative equivalent?

Were there a lot of "if Obama wins, I swear I'm moving to xxx?"

I think it's tougher for conservatives because just about any industrialized nation out there is farther left than we are.

The conservative equivalent I've heard most often is "if Obama wins I'll just quit working and collect free stuff for the rest of my life instead of people mooching off me".  Much like liberals moving none of them ever actually do it.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #92 on: November 08, 2012, 04:17:05 PM »

Offline Cman

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I have a slightly off topic question. I read an interesting article showing that year to year immigration/emigration does not change in presidential election years, so the whole "if x wins i'm moving to y" thing is pretty much confirmed as an empty threat.

So, we all hear of (usually liberals) saying "if Bush wins, I'm seriously moving to [Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK, Japan]!"

My question is, is there a conservative equivalent?

Were there a lot of "if Obama wins, I swear I'm moving to xxx?"

Cayman Islands?
Celtics fan for life.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #93 on: November 08, 2012, 04:30:24 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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All I know is that I'll never vote for a Barack Obama or Joe Biden, and I'll never be excited to vote for a John McCain or Mitt Romney, so who knows, maybe I just won't vote for president anymore.
This of course, is the nightmare scenario for political parties in the US, because we don't have mandatory poll attendance. People have the option to stay home, which means a lot of effort gets expended on "firing up the base". I'd like a federal holiday, a Nevada-style "none of the above" option, and a mandate.

There's nothing odd about voting against parties, though. I vote D, but it's not because I love Democrats, it's because the GOP's platform strikes me as insane. Putting up with liberalism's various warts is the price that I have to pay to see that we never have a Vice President Paul Ryan.

You can bet the same thing happens with the fat cat Wall Street types (deregulation is another difference between D and R that I failed to mention), who surely don't like being labeled as bigots, but Democrats are less in line with their interests than Republicans are.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #94 on: November 08, 2012, 05:25:55 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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The disgust that many show for religion in this country is in itself disgusting. Do we want forced religion on people? No. But when religious values were embraced in this country, we were better off. Before the social cleansing of religion from the public view took place, we lived in a country where families were stronger, metal detectors were not needed at schools, teenage pregnancy was a shock, not the norm, parents could let their kids play outside without much worry, and their minds were not corrupted with the garbage that is on TV. Kids have no innocence anymore because of the secularism forced on us by the left. The tossing out of the values that helped build this country have contributed greatly to the societal ills we have today.

I don't wish to reduce your entire argument to this one statement - you said much more than this, and it's not my intent to mis-represent you.  But I have to take exception with this mis-characterization of American history.  I am a Christian, and happily so, but unless your "we" doesn't include folks like me, I don't believe that "when religious beliefs were embraced in this country, we were better off."   

I'm not sure what era you're referring to, but you don't have to go back very far to a time of racism and intolerance.  And once you get there, it goes all the way back to the founding.  As far as families being stronger, if by stronger you mean "more oppressive to women, who could be routinely abused, and were seldom allowed control of their own money, body, or vote," then I would agree with you. 

As far as the secularities forced on our children by the left (I have four children of my own), and the garbage that is on TV, I would say that the source of both those things is more often big business trying to sell us something.  Crap stays on TV because crap sells, and if it sells then the purveyors of it will keep pumping it out.  It has something to do with free market economy, I think (which seems a favorite of the right, not the left).  You could get rid of it if you regulated the industry, I'm sure (but hey, regulation is for socialists, right?)

I said "values", not "beliefs" for that reason. You can hold a value of a faith without abiding by the religion. For example-don't murder, steal or beat your wife.

I'm not for a moral police when it comes to entertainment. I brought those things up because it's an indication of how far we've come from. Our families are not as strong as they once were and the results are clear.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2012, 06:21:12 PM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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That's because they can't muster up a Reagan type these days.
Never mind that Reagan would have never made it through the primary process in the first place. GOP has moved so far to the right, that he might be a 21st century Blue Dog.

Mitt is farther left than Reagan was, it seemed to work out well for him.

Reagan would wrote the book on inspiring people, he would have destroyed Obama.

I hear the left spout this nonsense often, it's not based in reality like many other things they say about the GOP.

I am not sure how you measure who is better at inspiring people, but public opinion polls indicate a mixed bag.

Obama started his term with a higher public approval rating than Reagan (63% to 60%).

Both sunk significantly (47% for BO, 35% for RR)

And both rebounded (52% for BO, 58% for RR)

I dont think approval polls are that great in general, but I like that my favorite post war president (Ike) had an average of 70%.

The only other way I could think to measure it would be voter turnout.  Obama did generate a higher percentage of voter turnout in 2008 (58%) than Reagan did in either election (52,53).  I would imagine that 2012 is lower though.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #96 on: November 08, 2012, 06:28:16 PM »

Offline BballTim

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All I know is that I'll never vote for a Barack Obama or Joe Biden, and I'll never be excited to vote for a John McCain or Mitt Romney, so who knows, maybe I just won't vote for president anymore.
This of course, is the nightmare scenario for political parties in the US, because we don't have mandatory poll attendance. People have the option to stay home, which means a lot of effort gets expended on "firing up the base". I'd like a federal holiday, a Nevada-style "none of the above" option, and a mandate.

  The government forces people to do (at least) enough things already. People have the right to not vote.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #97 on: November 08, 2012, 06:31:03 PM »

Offline JSD

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Right on cue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgQAI70slYo

This video, around the table, mentions a lot of the points that were talked about here.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2012, 06:32:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think most people would consider me a firm Democrat and an atheist, though in truth I am more of a deist. That said, my family values are strong and my family unit is strong and it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

Today's family is as strong and moral as you make it and it has nothing to due with religion but good parenting and a dedication to husband and wife as a unit, loving, compromising, sacrificing and working hard to be together and the best husband, wife, father and mother that you can be.

Religion is one way to attain those morals but increasingly, religion is not growing with the times or dealing with the intricacies of technology and new knowledge that can put into question some of the teachings of religion.

All that said, I think family values are what you make them, regardless of religious belief and more and more religion will dissipate as a function within the American family. I don't think a lack of religion has caused the breakdown of the American family. I think it is the breakdown of commitment to a life long partner that is killing the American family. Not sure a lack of religion has anything to do with that. I think it has more to do with a selfish, greedy, "me" first attitude that in a lot of ways is promoted through the American business culture.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #99 on: November 08, 2012, 06:49:53 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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The government forces people to do (at least) enough things already. People have the right to not vote.
So don't vote. You just have to show up, once every 730.5 days.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2012, 07:56:35 PM »

Online Rondo2287

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Just saw Nate silver on the daily show.  I apologize to all the I have offended accusing him of being partisan.  He is just a straight up nerd, I think he probably gets excited the closer the polls are. 
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2012, 08:15:53 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Just saw Nate silver on the daily show.  I apologize to all the I have offended accusing him of being partisan.  He is just a straight up nerd, I think he probably gets excited the closer the polls are.
Still think he's only as good as he is because the Obama campaign spoon-feeds him their magic polling data?

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2012, 08:18:10 PM »

Online Rondo2287

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Just saw Nate silver on the daily show.  I apologize to all the I have offended accusing him of being partisan.  He is just a straight up nerd, I think he probably gets excited the closer the polls are.
Still think he's only as good as he is because the Obama campaign spoon-feeds him their magic polling data?

Yes but I don't think he's partisan.  It's still an algorithm, good in good out.  That's a basic concept....
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Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2012, 08:29:14 PM »

Offline InfiniteMH

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Stop setting the country back with your "back in the days" and "we want our country back" please. You guys are embarrassing us to the rest of the world.

Murder rate per capita was higher in the 60s. Civil rights movement. Women's right are getting better. Scientific advancement. To say that the country is falling apart from lack of religion is saying religion was the only good thing holding this country together. No wonder you feel persecuted, sillies. That's crazy. You don't need religion to practice kindness, tolerance, and love for another. What you need is common sense.  Are you surprised a growing population of people are skeptical of religion?

Quote
All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

Dalai Lama

The leading country the world doesn't have the luxury to reminisce about the "good old days" as if all the answers have been around since jesus. You can do that, but don't set the country back. We need to move forward.

Re: GOP in Deep Trouble, Ron Paul Looking Good
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2012, 08:36:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just saw Nate silver on the daily show.  I apologize to all the I have offended accusing him of being partisan.  He is just a straight up nerd, I think he probably gets excited the closer the polls are.
Still think he's only as good as he is because the Obama campaign spoon-feeds him their magic polling data?
And what about the Romney magic polling data that had him gaining momentum and winning even though most polls showed otherwise?

Was listening to Obama's campaign polling data cheating or was it just verifying what his own numbers told him?  Because he could have gone to the Romney campaign and asked for their numbers to see why they were making the claims they were. Heck, maybe he did go to the Romney campaign and ask how they were getting their numbers. We don't know. Maybe after reviewing those numbers he got, Silver just said, "I'm glad Obama is using real mathematicians to run their numbers and not partisan doofs" and decided to stick with what he was predicting.

Personally, I don't care. But studying math, I know you have to look at all possible numbers and recheck your formulations and deductions and then present your methodology to back up your numbers. Silver has done that. getting Obama's numbers only means he was doing his job.