Author Topic: Election day 2012  (Read 32171 times)

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #480 on: November 07, 2012, 11:23:06 AM »

Online angryguy77

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Seems like the right thing to do, at least for lawmakers is to roll up their sleeves and get to work on bi-partisan bills, giving up a little to get a little and come up with a plan.

My litmus test will be whether or not some Republicans are willing to agree to letting the Bush tax cuts expire as part of a bipartisan budget plan.  This is something that a majority of Americans support in polls.  If Republicans refuse to budge on taxes, then they will have proven themselves to be uninterested in being a good-faith negotiating partner with Democrats.  And if Republicans go down that road, anyone claiming to be a centrist who wants bipartisan compromise will reveal themselves to be a conservative pretending to be a centrist so they can appear "fair and balanced", or else a fool, if they can't admit that maybe both sides aren't equally to blame.

If the republicnas don't want to work with the president, then what do you have to say about the democrats that didn't vote for his budget?


Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #481 on: November 07, 2012, 11:23:19 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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It's almost like the crisis ended but the spending didn't. "Crisis level spending" is, under Obama, the new norm.
Almost, but not quite; it requires that one forget how long the Great Depression lasted. This isn't the dot-com bubble bursting, a recession caused by the Fed, a supply crisis, or any other assorted things that can be quickly bounced back from.

Welcome to the wreckage of a financial crisis. (EDIT: and debt overhang!)

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #482 on: November 07, 2012, 11:27:27 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Seems like the right thing to do, at least for lawmakers is to roll up their sleeves and get to work on bi-partisan bills, giving up a little to get a little and come up with a plan.

My litmus test will be whether or not some Republicans are willing to agree to letting the Bush tax cuts expire as part of a bipartisan budget plan.  This is something that a majority of Americans support in polls.  If Republicans refuse to budge on taxes, then they will have proven themselves to be uninterested in being a good-faith negotiating partner with Democrats.  And if Republicans go down that road, anyone claiming to be a centrist who wants bipartisan compromise will reveal themselves to be a conservative pretending to be a centrist so they can appear "fair and balanced", or else a fool, if they can't admit that maybe both sides aren't equally to blame.

  Yes, and in return the democrats, if they're really serious about compromise, can repeal Obamacare.

  Wait, compromise doesn't mean one party doing exactly what the other party wants?

I find that humorous. I really hope that's a joke.

  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #483 on: November 07, 2012, 11:29:22 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.
What is it called when one side compromises their position to make a deal, includes it in an offer, and then the other side moves the goalposts and calls it insufficient?

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #484 on: November 07, 2012, 11:30:18 AM »

Online angryguy77

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It's almost like the crisis ended but the spending didn't. "Crisis level spending" is, under Obama, the new norm.
Almost, but not quite; it requires that one forget how long the Great Depression lasted. This isn't the dot-com bubble bursting, a recession caused by the Fed, a supply crisis, or any other assorted things that can be quickly bounced back from.

Welcome to the wreckage of a financial crisis.

Welcome to the wreckage of a country. I realize some believe we can spend from now into infinity, but reality will knock sooner or later.

The least our government could do for us is not free healthcare, but rather it should build a giant arena where us plebeians can gather to watch games while the country decays.


Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #485 on: November 07, 2012, 11:31:13 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Seems like the right thing to do, at least for lawmakers is to roll up their sleeves and get to work on bi-partisan bills, giving up a little to get a little and come up with a plan.

My litmus test will be whether or not some Republicans are willing to agree to letting the Bush tax cuts expire as part of a bipartisan budget plan.  This is something that a majority of Americans support in polls.  If Republicans refuse to budge on taxes, then they will have proven themselves to be uninterested in being a good-faith negotiating partner with Democrats.  And if Republicans go down that road, anyone claiming to be a centrist who wants bipartisan compromise will reveal themselves to be a conservative pretending to be a centrist so they can appear "fair and balanced", or else a fool, if they can't admit that maybe both sides aren't equally to blame.

  Yes, and in return the democrats, if they're really serious about compromise, can repeal Obamacare.

  Wait, compromise doesn't mean one party doing exactly what the other party wants?

I find that humorous. I really hope that's a joke.

  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

If republicans would be willing to let tax cuts expire or raise taxes, I'd hope democrats would be willing to cut spending on targeted entitlement programs.

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #486 on: November 07, 2012, 11:34:30 AM »

Offline BballTim

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It's almost like the crisis ended but the spending didn't. "Crisis level spending" is, under Obama, the new norm.
Almost, but not quite; it requires that one forget how long the Great Depression lasted. This isn't the dot-com bubble bursting, a recession caused by the Fed, a supply crisis, or any other assorted things that can be quickly bounced back from.

Welcome to the wreckage of a financial crisis. (EDIT: and debt overhang!)

  This was miles from the great depression, and the immediate financial crisis ended quite a while ago. It's more like welcome to the wreckage of out of control government spending.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #487 on: November 07, 2012, 11:36:41 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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Welcome to the wreckage of a country. I realize some believe we can spend from now into infinity, but reality will knock sooner or later.
This is Weasel wording, textbook. Your vaguely identified people aren't making policy.

Quote
The least our government could do for us is not free healthcare, but rather it should build a giant arena where us plebeians can gather to watch games while the country decays.
You might be surprised to hear that healthcare isn't free; it's paid for by tax increases and the premiums of young invincibles.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #488 on: November 07, 2012, 11:37:07 AM »

Offline BballTim

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A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.
What is it called when one side compromises their position to make a deal, includes it in an offer, and then the other side moves the goalposts and calls it insufficient?

  Politics?
 

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #489 on: November 07, 2012, 11:37:34 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

I think a reasonable compromise would be to let the Bush tax cuts expire just for the wealthy and keep them for the middle class.  Unless your argument is that Republicans really only care about tax cuts if they are for the wealthy and not tax cuts in general.
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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #490 on: November 07, 2012, 11:37:34 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Entitlement reform:

Give Medicaid to those that have Medicare and give Medicare to those that have Medicaid. Emergency room visits will plummet once people realize if it isn't an emergency, you have to pay for it.

If you receive public housing or food stamps, you must register for 5 hours of work per week at your local city or town hall.

A way of complying with the above requirement without having to do it would be to go to a college or training school and educate yourself in a profession and eventually finding a job.

Cut all, corporate entitlements to zero immediately. If you are a corporation and can't get by without a corporate entitlement, you don't deserve to survive.


Other ways to make money for the government:

Legalize a certain grown product and tax the heck out of it, like tobacco is.

End the war in Afghanistan and have all those in the military that have been fighting wars patrol our borders and secure our ports.

Amnesty all non documented workers and have those workers tell the government where they work as a requirement of being amnestied in as a legal resident. Then make those companies start paying those people within the law and start taxing those payrolls and incomes. Set penalties against those companies that if they hire undocumented workers again, they will pay severe monetary penalties.

Increase taxes on all people earning more than $100,000 per year. Nothing huge, say 5%

Increase capital gains tax 5%

Give tax breaks to companies that create and keep jobs in America. Give tax hikes to companies that keep their America incorporation but send jobs overseas.

Invest in college research for new energy sources and infrastructure rebuilding.

That's how I would fix America.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #491 on: November 07, 2012, 11:38:53 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The least our government could do for us is not free healthcare, but rather it should build a giant arena where us plebeians can gather to watch games while the country decays.

That's a funny use of imagery there, because I was listening to a former republican strategist today who was saying what ultimately drove him and many others from the party was the embracing of far-right religious and economic policies that would eventually result in a feudalistic medieval state.

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #492 on: November 07, 2012, 11:39:12 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

I think a reasonable compromise would be to let the Bush tax cuts expire just for the wealthy and keep them for the middle class.  Unless your argument is that Republicans really only care about tax cuts if they are for the wealthy.

  I could repeat my post. Your idea of a compromise is a big concession by one side and nothing from the other.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #493 on: November 07, 2012, 11:40:06 AM »

Online angryguy77

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Seems like the right thing to do, at least for lawmakers is to roll up their sleeves and get to work on bi-partisan bills, giving up a little to get a little and come up with a plan.

My litmus test will be whether or not some Republicans are willing to agree to letting the Bush tax cuts expire as part of a bipartisan budget plan.  This is something that a majority of Americans support in polls.  If Republicans refuse to budge on taxes, then they will have proven themselves to be uninterested in being a good-faith negotiating partner with Democrats.  And if Republicans go down that road, anyone claiming to be a centrist who wants bipartisan compromise will reveal themselves to be a conservative pretending to be a centrist so they can appear "fair and balanced", or else a fool, if they can't admit that maybe both sides aren't equally to blame.

  Yes, and in return the democrats, if they're really serious about compromise, can repeal Obamacare.

  Wait, compromise doesn't mean one party doing exactly what the other party wants?

I find that humorous. I really hope that's a joke.

  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

If republicans would be willing to let tax cuts expire or raise taxes, I'd hope democrats would be willing to cut spending on targeted entitlement programs.

It will never happen. I would bet my life that if the republicans cave and allow taxes to go up, the democrats will either grow entitlement spending, or the cuts they do implement will amount to nothing more than a drop in the bucket.

Entitlements are what they run on, they tell us the mean republicans are going to cut them and throw people out into the street every single election. I cannot remember the last election where they haven't tried to scare people into believing this nonsense. I have a hard time believing they will do anything meaningful to reduce welfare.


Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #494 on: November 07, 2012, 11:40:38 AM »

Offline InfiniteMH

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  A bit of post-election snarkiness. OTOH, his litmus test on being bi-partisan seems to be the republicans giving up something that they feel strongly about and, in return, the democrats thanking them.

I think a reasonable compromise would be to let the Bush tax cuts expire just for the wealthy and keep them for the middle class.  Unless your argument is that Republicans really only care about tax cuts if they are for the wealthy.

  I could repeat my post. Your idea of a compromise is a big concession by one side and nothing from the other.


I thought it was just politics?

 

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