Author Topic: Election day 2012  (Read 30402 times)

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2012, 04:02:38 PM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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The NBP advocated killing whites, if the group believes in that, what then does their uniform/symbol stand for?
I think it means "hi, I'm a bigot". It's a stronger statement than, say, low-cut jeans, but as long as someone isn't brandishing a billy-club in people's faces, we're in the clear.

I don't remember that being the standard when we were talking about possible voter "suppression" associated with requiring IDs.
Perhaps you'll remember affirmative proof of in-person voter impersonation being the standard of evidence needed before you change the law to require Voter ID.

  The fact that people are strongly opposed to verifying the identity of  those voters is proof that the fraud occurs.

According to the logic class I took in college, this is patently false.

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #166 on: November 06, 2012, 04:03:57 PM »

Offline crownsy

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A) A swastika is an actual form of hate speech. So that's a non-starter.
Is it? Well, there goes that, then.

What other examples can we come up with? Someone dressed like the Unabomber, maybe? OSB? Kermit the Frog?

Yea, no. I get where your going, but a swastika is clear hate speech, there's no place for it in human discourse since the Nazi Party copted it.

Those other symbols don't evoke racial killing on an unimaginably horrific scale.

The NBP advocated killing whites, if the group believes in that, what then does their uniform/symbol stand for?

Are we seriously going to go here angry? you want to compare the symbol of the black panther's movement to the movement responsible for the holocaust?

and off a post that had nothing to do with the NBP?


you know what, no. I refuse to feed into this. If you think the NBP's symbolism is on a similar level with the Nazi Party in people's consciousness or reality, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I feel like Sandler

"


Again, did I say the NBP were as bad as Nazis, or was I saying that the symbol could also be viewed as hateful given the statements made by the group. Think real hard.

Right, in response to a post about the holocaust that never referenced them. No where in either post was it argued or put forth that the NBP symbol was or was not hate speech, you decided to bring them into it.

The whole stchik of "I'll just imply this, then call the person who calls me on it the outrageous person!" gets tired quick man.

If you want to say the NBP symbol is hate speech, than say it, and we'll debate it. But don't qoute a post on the holocaust, assert "What does the NBP symbol stand for if they believe in killing people as well?"

Then act like the person responding is so outrageous for saying you compared the two, that's the connection your implying.

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #167 on: November 06, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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The fact that people are strongly opposed to verifying the identity of  those voters is proof that the fraud occurs.
That's not not any argument of mine, so maybe you'll want to take it up with those people, whoever they are. Hopefully this settles the apparent issue for you.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #168 on: November 06, 2012, 04:08:27 PM »

Offline crownsy

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So ..  How does the "intimidator" know which prospective voters to stink eye?

Showing up to vote is not exactly like waking into the garden with a Kobe jersey on...

Well to be fair I think the assertion is that white people will not be comfortable voting for the republican candidate in that space, so those who were voting obama anyway will still vote.

And just to be clear, I think him standing their in the uniform is Bull. There's no need for that except to intimidate. What other purpose is served by showing up in uniform associated with hate instead of street clothes?

I'm not going to get into questions of effectiveness, that's the problem I take with posts saying the robocalls and false info given out aren't as bad because they shouldn't be effective if you "use your brain"

Both practices are despicable, they shouldn't be rated by effectiveness.   
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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #169 on: November 06, 2012, 04:11:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The NBP advocated killing whites, if the group believes in that, what then does their uniform/symbol stand for?
I think it means "hi, I'm a bigot". It's a stronger statement than, say, low-cut jeans, but as long as someone isn't brandishing a billy-club in people's faces, we're in the clear.

I don't remember that being the standard when we were talking about possible voter "suppression" associated with requiring IDs.
Perhaps you'll remember affirmative proof of in-person voter impersonation being the standard of evidence needed before you change the law to require Voter ID.

  The fact that people are strongly opposed to verifying the identity of  those voters is proof that the fraud occurs.

According to the logic class I took in college, this is patently false.

  That's more evidence than the people who claim it doesn't exist have provided.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #170 on: November 06, 2012, 04:21:00 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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A) A swastika is an actual form of hate speech. So that's a non-starter.
Is it? Well, there goes that, then.

What other examples can we come up with? Someone dressed like the Unabomber, maybe? OSB? Kermit the Frog?

Yea, no. I get where your going, but a swastika is clear hate speech, there's no place for it in human discourse since the Nazi Party copted it.

Those other symbols don't evoke racial killing on an unimaginably horrific scale.

The NBP advocated killing whites, if the group believes in that, what then does their uniform/symbol stand for?

Are we seriously going to go here angry? you want to compare the symbol of the black panther's movement to the movement responsible for the holocaust?

and off a post that had nothing to do with the NBP?


you know what, no. I refuse to feed into this. If you think the NBP's symbolism is on a similar level with the Nazi Party in people's consciousness or reality, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I feel like Sandler

"


Again, did I say the NBP were as bad as Nazis, or was I saying that the symbol could also be viewed as hateful given the statements made by the group. Think real hard.

Right, in response to a post about the holocaust that never referenced them. No where in either post was it argued or put forth that the NBP symbol was or was not hate speech, you decided to bring them into it.

The whole stchik of "I'll just imply this, then call the person who calls me on it the outrageous person!" gets tired quick man.

If you want to say the NBP symbol is hate speech, than say it, and we'll debate it. But don't qoute a post on the holocaust, assert "What does the NBP symbol stand for if they believe in killing people as well?"

Then act like the person responding is so outrageous for saying you compared the two, that's the connection your implying.

Helps to read the whole thread and then determine what a post may or may not mean.

Quote
Yea, no. I get where your going, but a swastika is clear hate speech, there's no place for it in human discourse since the Nazi Party copted it.

Those other symbols don't evoke racial killing on an unimaginably horrific scale.

On a side note, I'd say advocating killing white babies is pretty horrific.

What I was saying(It would help if you asked for clarification before you go off btw) is that if their group advocates murder of a specific race, then what does their symbol represent? It's reasonable to assume their uniform/symbol stands for hate. I did not say or imply it was on par with what the Nazis did, you came up with that all on your own. You've been putting words in my mouth for the last few pages and I would appreciate it if you would stop.

I can understand a misunderstanding from time to time, but either you are purposely misrepresenting what I'm getting at because you cannot defend your position properly, or you are purposely trolling me.


Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #171 on: November 06, 2012, 04:22:47 PM »

Online nickagneta

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I have some questions regarding this whole Black Panther guy holding the door open in Philly.

Was the neighborhood he was doing this in predominantly white or black?

If it was in a predominantly white neighborhood...,thats voter intimidation.

If it was a black neighborhood, thats not voter intimidation because black people wouldnt be intimidated by him and white people who live in predominantly black neighborhoods wouldnt be intimidated  by a black guy at the door of a voting center.

Point being this issue needs more context before blanket statements are bandied about.

I'm not sure if I agree.  I don't want dudes in KKK robes showing up in predominantly white neighborhoods, on the grounds that white residents wouldn't be intimidated, nor would black residents who decided to live in a white neighborhood.
Just read more of this thread, now that I have come back to the computer and am not on my phone. Apparently this guy was a New Black Panther. That's a different story. That is a hate group and they have no affiliation with the Black Panther Party of decades earlier.

I don't view Black Panthers as anything close to the KKK but the New Black Panthers definitely are a hate group against white people.

So I change my stance. This was voter intimidation no matter where the guy was and should be condemned.

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #172 on: November 06, 2012, 04:30:26 PM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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The NBP advocated killing whites, if the group believes in that, what then does their uniform/symbol stand for?
I think it means "hi, I'm a bigot". It's a stronger statement than, say, low-cut jeans, but as long as someone isn't brandishing a billy-club in people's faces, we're in the clear.

I don't remember that being the standard when we were talking about possible voter "suppression" associated with requiring IDs.
Perhaps you'll remember affirmative proof of in-person voter impersonation being the standard of evidence needed before you change the law to require Voter ID.

  The fact that people are strongly opposed to verifying the identity of  those voters is proof that the fraud occurs.

According to the logic class I took in college, this is patently false.

  That's more evidence than the people who claim it doesn't exist have provided.

I dont remember anyone saying it doesnt exist, just that the procedural burdens outweigh the benefits.  Why not start where the real problem is?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/31/opinion/persily-voter-id-laws/index.html

"Even though we have few documented cases and prosecutions, make no mistake about it: Voter impersonation does happen.

It probably happens with the same frequency as voters collapsing in line while waiting to vote, or getting nauseous when they see the names on the ballot. And yes, if every election were to be a replay of the 2000 election, then any mishap -- fraudulent or otherwise -- could determine the outcome. As of yet, however, we have not required all polling places to be prepared with smelling salts.

The reason voter impersonation fraud is so rare is that it is an incredibly stupid and inefficient way to rig an election. Shepherding hordes of fraudsters from one polling place to the next to vote in other people's names would take a lot of time and effort and expose them to trouble with the law with little potential payoff. Successful fraud is usually perpetrated at the wholesale, rather than retail, level.

Absentee ballots, in particular, have proven to be the fraudster's method of choice. They are cast in private out of the view of suspecting eyes of poll workers or fellow voters. They are ripe for coercion and undue influence from whoever might be sitting next to the absentee voter -- think union or corporate bosses. And multiple ballots can be collected over the course of several weeks, saving the expense and rush of a one-day voter impersonation campaign.

The greatest irony of the new crop of voter ID laws is that they do nothing to combat the more frequent problem of absentee ballot fraud."

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #173 on: November 06, 2012, 04:37:46 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Must be fun voting for Romney at this polling place in Philly

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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #174 on: November 06, 2012, 04:38:35 PM »

Online Donoghus

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This cracked me up



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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #175 on: November 06, 2012, 04:39:16 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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  The fact that people are strongly opposed to verifying the identity of  those voters is proof that the fraud occurs.

The fact that people are strongly opposed to registering guns is proof that they intend to use those guns to commit crimes.
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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #176 on: November 06, 2012, 04:39:53 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Quote
Media Trackers has found federal Job Corps vans being used to bus voters to at least one polling location in the City of Milwaukee. A van with federal plates and driven by a Job Corps employee was seen pulling up to the small polling station at the Clara Barton Elementary School in urban Milwaukee shortly after 1:00 pm on Tuesday. A Job Corps administrator inside the polling place said the federal vans had brought approximately 125 Job Corps participants to the poll as of early afternoon.

The administrator declined to give his name. The Job Corps is a division of the United States Department of Labor, a cabinet level agency that reports directly to President Obama, who is up for re-election today and who has campaigned hard in Wisconsin in recent days.

Poll workers inside the location struggled to handle the extra traffic created by the Job Corps participants brought in from a nearby training facility. A number of them were first time voters who had to be registered using Wisconsin’s same-day registration procedure. At one point a poll worker had to be asked by an unidentified election observer to confirm that a would-be registrant actually lived in the precincts served by the polling location.


Voter registration and voting were done inside one of the classrooms of the school. A photo of President Obama hung prominently near the ballot counting machine. There were no other photos of U.S. Presidents or U.S. historical figures hung on the walls.

Participants in the Milwaukee division of Job Corps are trained in a number of technical areas at no expense to themselves or their families. The Milwaukee center’s website – and other Job Corps sites – focus on the so-called green economy. “Job Corps is preparing students for the green economy through green training in the advanced manufacturing, automotive, and construction industry areas.”

As a federal government program Job Corps’ vans and staff time are paid for by taxpayers.

More efficient than giving homeless smokes for votes in Milwaukee I guess.

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #177 on: November 06, 2012, 04:47:28 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Must be fun voting for Romney at this polling place in Philly



Yea, that was pretty bad, you would think someone at that place would have said "yea, maybe we should put the voting machines in another room."

I guess now the school been ordered to cover it, but unacceptable.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #178 on: November 06, 2012, 04:47:41 PM »

Online nickagneta

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My wife asked me this question and I didn't have an answer to it. perhaps people can help.


If while flying back to Boston tonight after his last appearance tonight, but before polls close in the entire U.S., Romney's plane was to go down and he died and then it turned out he won the election, what happens?

Does Ryan become President because he was elected Vice President? Or does he not because you can only become president by succession if you are a Vice-President or someone further down the line of succession?

Does Obama retain the presidency because his competitor died before the election ended?

Is there another election held?

I have no idea. Any help?
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Re: Election day 2012
« Reply #179 on: November 06, 2012, 04:48:20 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Must be fun voting for Romney at this polling place in Philly


Judge ordered it covered up. It's since been improved slightly.

 

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