Author Topic: Are we showcasing Sully?  (Read 7928 times)

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Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2012, 11:14:42 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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If Doc isnt going to play Darko or even Collins, then Sully is the only player on the team the gives us a presence inside. No one else even comes within 15 feet of the basket and thats a huge problem. Sully can bang down low and actually gets rebounds. We need to have a low post offensive presence on offense if we want to get better on that end of the floor.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2012, 11:58:47 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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No, just trying to figure out how to best utilize Sullinger/Bass in live game action.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2012, 12:35:37 PM »

Offline nostar

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Have to say that I've come to an early conclusion on Sullinger.  This guy will not be an impact player, regardless of his ability to "old school rebound."  He simply does not have NBA athleticism.  His feet are so [dang] slow.  It's sad.  I would seriously rather give Melo the time despite his total inexperience.  The investment has so much more potential.

Jeff Green -- A guy who realizes that it would be better to be aggressive and then tries to be so.  Unfortunately that does not equal a guy who is actually aggressive.  That said, I'll hope he breaks through and just keep hoping until he leaves town.

Jason Terry -- Not sure.

KG -- Another year older.

Pierce -- Another year older. 

Darko -- Um, try putting him in the game for the love of God.  Can someone please protect the rim around here?

Barbosa -- Our actual big off-season pickup happened at the last minute for the vet minimum.

This is the annual "I watched the first 3 celtics games and my hair is on fire" nonsense. Here we go!

Sullinger is a rookie. He will work on footwork and get his NBA legs soon enough. If he doesn't then he was the 21st pick. We didn't exactly give up Anthony Davis for him.

Jeff Green is 3 games back from serious heart surgery. Yeah I know he looked good preseason. So did Adam Morrison. Green will either find his way or he'll be an overpaid role player. Most teams have them. I only hope he can work on his defense for the playoffs.

Terry has always been streaky. He averaged 13 shots per game and 32 minutes in Dallas last season. He's getting 10 less minutes here and taking half the shots. Rhythm is a big part of shooting and 7 shots and 20 minutes is tough for the previous 2nd offense option. Give him a few weeks to get a groove with his new role. He's the 4th all-time 3-point maker in NBA history. He will be okay.

KG is fine. Anyone who thinks he's lost it is in for a rude awakening. He just needs to stay healthy. I'd consider playing him sub-20 minutes a game. Regular season is only for making playoffs.

Pierce has looked better in the first 3 games than he did in either of the last 2 seasons. Keep him fresh and he's a top-5 SF...believe it.

Do we really not trust Doc as a coach? Do you think if Darko was playing well in practice and was healthy that he wouldn't be in the games? Doc is one of the best coaches in the NBA. If we had a competent backup center I'm sure he'd see time.

You think Barbosa was a bigger pickup than Courtney Lee or Jason Terry? I was excited when he put up 16 too but...please come back to reality.

Let's not emulate the Lakers fans or any Philly sports team fans...or some unwatchable Steven A. Smith rant. The Celtics are figuring out the best way to play with our new roster. I've said this before, we replaced everyone outside of the starting 5 (and the heart surgery duo) in the off season. That is abnormal and the adjustments should be expected.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2012, 12:45:19 PM »

Offline Jon

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I think the bigger question is are we not playing Darko so we can showcase Bass? 

Now it may just be because Doc is valuing talent over size, and Bass is more talented than Darko.  But I do wonder if this keeps up, it may be an effort on Boston's part to showcase Bass and eventually move him in a larger trade involving at least one of our guards, if not more. 

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2012, 12:47:09 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I think the bigger question is are we not playing Darko so we can showcase Bass? 

Now it may just be because Doc is valuing talent over size, and Bass is more talented than Darko.  But I do wonder if this keeps up, it may be an effort on Boston's part to showcase Bass and eventually move him in a larger trade involving at least one of our guards, if not more.

If so, it's working out well so far. Bass looks great.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2012, 10:54:46 PM »

Online RJ87

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Have to say that I've come to an early conclusion on Sullinger.  This guy will not be an impact player, regardless of his ability to "old school rebound."  He simply does not have NBA athleticism.  His feet are so [dang] slow.  It's sad.  I would seriously rather give Melo the time despite his total inexperience.  The investment has so much more potential

Luis Scola
David Lee
Chris Kaman
Elton Brand
Ryan Anderson
Kevin Love

Just a handful of slow-footed bigs that have been productive NBA players. You don't have to have jump-out-of-the-gym athleticism. People get too caught up in ESPN highlight reels and forget that fundamentals in basketball are still important and valuable.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
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SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2012, 11:03:12 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Have to say that I've come to an early conclusion on Sullinger.  This guy will not be an impact player, regardless of his ability to "old school rebound."  He simply does not have NBA athleticism.  His feet are so [dang] slow.  It's sad.  I would seriously rather give Melo the time despite his total inexperience.  The investment has so much more potential

Luis Scola
David Lee
Chris Kaman
Elton Brand
Ryan Anderson
Kevin Love

Just a handful of slow-footed bigs that have been productive NBA players. You don't have to have jump-out-of-the-gym athleticism. People get too caught up in ESPN highlight reels and forget that fundamentals in basketball are still important and valuable.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

Also, the dude is getting gassed quick. He is still getting in shape. He will never be a quick guy, but he will get better conditioned and that will improve his quickness a little.

On the other hand, he is also undersized. That means that his foot speed makes his pick and roll defense a liability, and his height and hops make him quote non-threatening protecting the rim.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2012, 11:18:04 PM »

Offline arambone

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sully will get better as a shotblocker too. Hes longer than youd think, and jumps higher than youd think. He doubled his shotblocking from fresh to soph year, so its a skill hes still developing.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2012, 11:59:40 PM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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with the way some guards are scoring lately Id be keeping Avery around for a loooooooong time

I second this motion

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2012, 12:33:06 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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sully will get better as a shotblocker too. Hes longer than youd think, and jumps higher than youd think. He doubled his shotblocking from fresh to soph year, so its a skill hes still developing.
How long do I think he is? How high do I think he jumps?

I don't think being average at jumping and having some length, though short, while also having slow feet and being an easy target for pick and rolls is a winning defensive package. I don't think it is a disaster, but it is underwhelming at the moment.

I am optimistic about Sully, but he has his warts.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2012, 07:56:43 AM »

Offline billysan

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I am optimistic about Sully, but he has his warts.

Rookie warts to be sure. I am confident Doc thinks he can play and will outgrow them quickly, otherwise he wouldnt be seeing the minutes.

I think if it were putting the best on the floor and he wasnt catching on then we wouldnt be seeing him start over Bass. I just dont buy that we are that desparate for rebounding that he is played ahead of our other bigs.

I think he is earning the time. He needs to work on that P n R defense for sure though.
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Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2012, 09:03:07 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I just dont buy that we are that desparate for rebounding that he is played ahead of our other bigs.
Especially given that we got outrebounded big time.
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Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2012, 09:52:40 AM »

Offline Chris

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I just think he is better than the other big men right now.  He is more advanced in the system than Darko, Collins did not look good at all in the preseason, and in general has only been useful the last few years against certain matchups, which we haven't faced yet (although Seraphin might have been close, but I think he caught them completely by surprise), and Wilcox looks like he is still working his way back from the injury...and may not be better than Sully even when he is completely healthy.

Bass brings more to the table right now than Sully (although not a whole lot more IMO), but not enough to play many more minutes than he has been playing.

I do think Danny would be thrilled to build some value in Sully, but I don't think that has anything to do with why he is playing right now.

Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2012, 11:04:41 AM »

Offline billysan

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I just think he is better than the other big men right now.  He is more advanced in the system than Darko, Collins did not look good at all in the preseason, and in general has only been useful the last few years against certain matchups, which we haven't faced yet (although Seraphin might have been close, but I think he caught them completely by surprise), and Wilcox looks like he is still working his way back from the injury...and may not be better than Sully even when he is completely healthy.

Bass brings more to the table right now than Sully (although not a whole lot more IMO), but not enough to play many more minutes than he has been playing.

I do think Danny would be thrilled to build some value in Sully, but I don't think that has anything to do with why he is playing right now.
When Wilcox gets back he may become the first big after Bass off the bench. I think he matches up with Bass better on the front line than Bass does with Sullinger. It all depends on matchups as well, but Wilcox is more effective defensively as a 5 against small lineups that are generally faster than Sullinger is IMO.

I am not convinced Darko is that messed up in the learning process, rather that he has a nagging hand/wrist injury that is slowing him down. When he has been in there he is a presence setting picks, clogging the lane and blocking shots. He seems to be a competent passser as well. Could be he is too slow getting up and down the court too but I feel like he could have stayed with Dalembert for example.
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Re: Are we showcasing Sully?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2012, 11:13:19 AM »

Offline Chris

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I just think he is better than the other big men right now.  He is more advanced in the system than Darko, Collins did not look good at all in the preseason, and in general has only been useful the last few years against certain matchups, which we haven't faced yet (although Seraphin might have been close, but I think he caught them completely by surprise), and Wilcox looks like he is still working his way back from the injury...and may not be better than Sully even when he is completely healthy.

Bass brings more to the table right now than Sully (although not a whole lot more IMO), but not enough to play many more minutes than he has been playing.

I do think Danny would be thrilled to build some value in Sully, but I don't think that has anything to do with why he is playing right now.
When Wilcox gets back he may become the first big after Bass off the bench. I think he matches up with Bass better on the front line than Bass does with Sullinger. It all depends on matchups as well, but Wilcox is more effective defensively as a 5 against small lineups that are generally faster than Sullinger is IMO.

I am not convinced Darko is that messed up in the learning process, rather that he has a nagging hand/wrist injury that is slowing him down. When he has been in there he is a presence setting picks, clogging the lane and blocking shots. He seems to be a competent passser as well. Could be he is too slow getting up and down the court too but I feel like he could have stayed with Dalembert for example.

I am with you on all of this.  I have not seen enough of Darko to know what is exactly wrong, but clearly he just is not ready, whether it is physical or mental.  He looked good at times, but also seemed to off at other times.  I think patience with him is key...particularly since he has been a guy with a bit of a fragile ego.  Need to keep him from hurting his confidence too much.

As far as Wilcox, I agree that he should be the first big after Bass off the bench (assuming Sully is starting, right), at least until Darko is ready.  I just think that he needs more time to get ready, which is why he hasn't played more than a couple minutes.  He missed most of training camp after missing half of last season.

In other words, patience.  This is a work in progress, and Doc is trying to play the guys who are as close to ready as possible, while working hard behind the scenes to get everyone else up to speed and healthy.