Author Topic: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.  (Read 4837 times)

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Offline coco

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2012, 03:23:56 PM »
Well, one thing is for sure. 

The Cs won't get past Miami unless JGreen is getting major minutes against Miami's small lineup.  Bass? we tried and failed last season.  Sully? he is too slow to play the four vs Miami.

...we could go big vs Miami playing PP at the two but that conversation is for another day.

JGreen is here for two reasons.  1)give PP some rest 2)play LeBron, Melo and all the big threes out there (i.e. Durant)

If JGreen isn't beating Sully or Bass for a starting job - especially against teams that play small - then we are in trouble.  So either way, the season rests on figuring out how JGreen fits - if at all.

I think he is a starter.  He is not an energy guy like say...JTerry.



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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2012, 03:27:16 PM »
No one is going to get major minutes we have too much depth. Amazing to see Sullinger take so many minutes away from Bass and Green. I guess thats what happens when you can box out and get a few rebounds.
It's not that we have too much depth it's just that our players 5-15 are too mediocre for anyone to stand out.  Jeff's our 4th best player, but his position is firmly taken by Pierce.

Not sure how take this comment. Maybe you think that most #5-#10 players on most teams are more or less mediocre.  Viewed through that lens, you are complimenting the C's for having mediocrity through #15.  But if your point is that the C's talent level is not very good after #4, I would disagree.  Bradley, Terry, Lee, Sully and Bass are all better than average NBA players, IMO.

Nah...  I think it's just that there's not standout supersub yet (unless you count Barbosa, which the franchise really doesn't want to do yet) and nobody that's heads-above the other guys.  They all do something especially well, but it's not showing right now in the mix, so they all look about the same.

It seems that Doc is following a recent pattern of trying something out early in the season and sticking with it for a while to see if it comes together.  Last year it was Bradley, and that worked out...maybe too well.

With Bradley out, the other guys can show what they've got - and what they don't have.  Then Doc will start making decisions.  Consider the first 10 games an extended preseason.

But from what I've seen so far, I have to agree that there are no standouts among JET, Lee, Green, and even Sully.

If Doc decides to go defense, it'll show up.  Right now, lineups that feature both JET, Sully, and Bass at the 5 aren't going to be strong defensively. 

I think if Bradley is out there, the defense improves.  An at-least semi-legit center on the floor to protect the rim (KG, Darko, Wilcox even) plus Bradley on the permimeter, and the defense gets much easier for the other guys.  Assuming one is either Pierce or Green, they'll follow the lead of Bradley on the perimeter.  If Bass is at PF, we're good there as he proved last season, but I wouldn't mind seeing KG/Darko and I like KG/Wilcox.

Bottom line:  I don't think Doc has really put a defensive lineup out there that often, and surely isn't using defense as a criteria to earn playing time, even for the rook.  Things will change in a major way when he does.

Offline Clench123

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 04:28:12 PM »
No one is going to get major minutes we have too much depth. Amazing to see Sullinger take so many minutes away from Bass and Green. I guess thats what happens when you can box out and get a few rebounds.
It's not that we have too much depth it's just that our players 5-15 are too mediocre for anyone to stand out.  Jeff's our 4th best player, but his position is firmly taken by Pierce.

I would like to have what you're smoking, my friend.  If Jeff Green is our 4th best player, then it's time to hit the panic button for real because we are in huge trouble

Offline Clench123

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2012, 04:29:48 PM »
Does anybody knows what is going on with Darko?  The guy's presence in the paint alone gives us an advantage.  Not to mention is a great passer

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2012, 04:30:35 PM »

But from what I've seen so far, I have to agree that there are no standouts among JET, Lee, Green, and even Sully.

So you werent impressed yesterday when Green produced 11 pts, 2 rebs and a steal in just 16 minutes?

He had the team high for FG% along with Rondo, and both shot 5/10 even though RR played 24 more minutes than him.

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2012, 04:57:06 PM »

But from what I've seen so far, I have to agree that there are no standouts among JET, Lee, Green, and even Sully.

So you werent impressed yesterday when Green produced 11 pts, 2 rebs and a steal in just 16 minutes?

He had the team high for FG% along with Rondo, and both shot 5/10 even though RR played 24 more minutes than him.

It's just that I could see JET having a night like that next time, or Lee, or Barbosa, with no consistent standout.  I think the player that puts the offense and defense together on the perimeter is going to eventually win out.  That will be Green behind Pierce, and possibly as a 4 as well instead of Sully.  He could get 24-30 minutes that way easily, but Sully would be on the bench for that to happen.

At the Guard spot, I think Bradley will win a spot easily.  I think Lee has a better chance of getting it on both ends than JET, so that leaves JET as 4th guard/veteran backup PG for 15 min/game.

The rotations will have to shorten.  I think someone's going to be nearly on the outs, JET at PG behind Rondo and Sully at PF behind everyone that can defend.  I think it starts to come together then.

The varying rotations involve more minutes for Green at the 4 in a small-ball lineup, or more for Wilcox in a big lineup, with spot minutes for Darko when going big.  Then we'll be able to defend, and the offense will flow better as the chemistry becomes more stable.

Offline cman88

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2012, 06:24:52 PM »
Barbosa, Terry, green, lee are all above-average players and all could be 6th men or starters for most teams in the NBA averaging double digits last year

I think the problem is more distribution of shots..it almost looks like these guys right now are almost scared to take the shot and look for their offense.

but we aer going to need guys like Terry to play like he did in Dallas, looking for his shot

Offline scaryjerry

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2012, 06:29:31 PM »
For the millionth time (and I'm going to keep saying this until people get it into their heads) Kendrick Perkins never, ever, had any intention at any point in time to resign with Boston.

Perkins wanted more money than we were able to offer him - the only way he was going to get that money would be to go elsewhere.  If we didnt make the trade, we basically would have rented him for about 20 games and then he would have walked.

We would have gotten nothing in return.

Perkins was a zero factor in that trade - you can pretty much pretend he was never a part of it, because be practically wasn't.  We basically traded Nate Robinson for Nenad Kristic, Jeff Green and Fab Melo.  If you get a chance to do that trade will you say no?  Exactly.

This is an excellent point. TP 4 u.

While I agree completely with the point, trading Perk completely deflated any chance we had at winning the championship that year. Would I rather have a second ring then Jeff Green? Yes.

Agreed and disagree Perkins had "no intention of signing with Boston"....I find that absurd...the fact is he wanted to be here and the celtics had no intention of giving him what he wanted so ultimately the trade was done but I don't think for a second Perkins wanted to be on a team other than the celtics

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2012, 06:45:34 PM »
Barbosa, Terry, green, lee are all above-average players and all could be 6th men or starters for most teams in the NBA averaging double digits last year

I think the problem is more distribution of shots..it almost looks like these guys right now are almost scared to take the shot and look for their offense.

but we aer going to need guys like Terry to play like he did in Dallas, looking for his shot

I agree with the first part on the distribution of shots.  I think any of Green, Lee, JET, Barbosa, and possibly even Sully could get 10-12 ppg in 18 minutes on just about any team, and they've got to figure all of that out.  They each score differently, too, which complicates things.

But I think if that's true, then defense needs to be the difference maker.  Perhaps the scoreboard dictates the hot hand at times despite defense, but you go with the defenders in the end.

In that case, we don't need the JET from Dallas at all, but could use him in the nice little 12-15 minute Rondo backup/scoring punch change-up guy for the 2nd unit.  We surely don't need JET at SG.

That makes it much simpler:  Lee and Barbosa at SG.

The starters make sense:  Rondo/Lee/Pierce/Bass/KG, and that lineup was pretty effective at the end of last year.

But the bench:  JET/Barbosa/Green/Sully/Wilcox.  Looks like an offense that might not gel, and a defense without a defensive leader and two major holes in JET and Sully.

So if Sully sits, it looks a lot better defensively.

We'll see who loses minutes when Bradley comes back 100%.  I think it's JET and Barbosa, but only if Lee fits.  If he doesn't, he'll be on the block in February and Bradley will have a shot at being the starting SG of the future again.

Offline nostar

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 09:42:26 PM »
While I agree completely with the point, trading Perk completely deflated any chance we had at winning the championship that year. Would I rather have a second ring then Jeff Green? Yes.

I don't accept your premise.

Let's assume that having Perkins made us better than the Heat during the 2010-11 season and we beat them in the Quarter Finals (we lost 4-1). That is a huge assumption by the way. Then you have to go further and say that Perkins made us better than the Bulls, which isn't as much of a stretch in my opinion but they were very good that year. That would have been a very good series, probably 50/50.

After we've made those assumptions we have to make one (in my opinion) indefensible assumption. Perkins would also have has to make us better than the Dallas Mavericks. The Mavs were a force that season and I just think it was their year honestly. So I'm saying maybe the idea is that we traded a good center who we couldn't afford for a good prospect in Jeff Green and a temporary center in Kristic.

Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 10:06:54 PM »
While I agree completely with the point, trading Perk completely deflated any chance we had at winning the championship that year. Would I rather have a second ring then Jeff Green? Yes.

I don't accept your premise.

Let's assume that having Perkins made us better than the Heat during the 2010-11 season and we beat them in the Quarter Finals (we lost 4-1). That is a huge assumption by the way. Then you have to go further and say that Perkins made us better than the Bulls, which isn't as much of a stretch in my opinion but they were very good that year. That would have been a very good series, probably 50/50.

After we've made those assumptions we have to make one (in my opinion) indefensible assumption. Perkins would also have has to make us better than the Dallas Mavericks. The Mavs were a force that season and I just think it was their year honestly. So I'm saying maybe the idea is that we traded a good center who we couldn't afford for a good prospect in Jeff Green and a temporary center in Kristic.

If we could've beaten the Heat, I'd say we had better than even odds of beating everyone else.

But to beat the heat we would've needed a healthy Shaq, a healthy Rondo, two things completely unrelated to Perkins.

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Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2012, 10:11:03 PM »
we got the best team in the league
almost half is brand new
give it time fam

Offline mctyson

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2012, 08:14:15 AM »
Through the first three games, Jeff Green is averaging only 22 minutes.  I thought he would get close to 30.

Pierce is playing too much.  My guess is that he will come down and Green will go up as the season goes along.  Our team hasn't come together yet so Doc is relying heavily on Pierce and Rondo.

Rondo is averaging over 40 minutes right now.  That absolutely has to come down.

Offline billysan

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2012, 08:47:04 AM »
we got the best team in the league
almost half is brand new
give it time fam
This is it. The guys just need more time together. Lots of new faces that are learning their places. We do have huge amount of talent. This will get better if they follow KG and PP. Rondo leading the way.
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Offline Brendan

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Re: Jeff Green Just won't get major minutes.
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2012, 09:13:58 AM »
This is Doc being Doc. Over relying on the starters AND too many bench guys.

Doc should pick a rotation of 8 guys and go with it. Personally I think he should go with something like:

KG / Darko
Bass / Green
Pierce / Green
Bradley / Jet
Rondo / Jet

There's still enough minutes for an extra guy in there, use Wilcox and Barbosa when you need an extra big or wing/guard (tactical reasons). I know people will give me grief about Sullinger - but I'd prefer to see how the vets are doing, before deciding on him over them. I'd like to see how Darko does - good reports on his training camp, and I think we need a center on the floor.

Plus from a trade stand point this gets Green, Bradley, Jet and Bass show time. I think any trade that consolidates two of our B guys into an A guy involves two of them.

As for Green - his most important role is backup small forward - keep Pierce's minutes down and help against teams that play two small forwards a lot. If nothing changes, I'd guess he averages around 22 mpg, with some games bursting up to 30, but only if he plays well. Would he do better as a starter? Perhaps, but I don't think starting him and Pierce helps. It creates a hole in the rotation and over packs our deepest position - PF.

In the offseason, I was hoping we'd retain Ray and use our MLE on the best backup C we could get - be that Camby, Steisma, or someone else. I felt this lineup would have been very good:

Rondo, Allen, Green, Bass, KG - starting team that could run and space. AB as change of pace, Pierce for his play making and all around game, and the best center money could buy to hold the fort behind KG would have been a very strong 8 man.

Even if we lost Allen - I think plugging Lee into his spot and going with the same rotation would have made sense. JET, I think, is a luxury purchase (in fairness DA couldn't have known that he'd get Lee & get Barbosa to hold the fort while AB was out). The team is now more talented 1 - 15 than it has been in the KG era, but I think the fit and rotation is out of wack. I'm not super optimistic on AB's recovery this year (having had shoulder surgery, plus reading into DA's pickup of guards, plus wondering how he works back in), but when he can play it only will make the problems worse.

On the other hand - they can work through these issues. I'd rather have the talent and need to consolidate the rotation, then not have the talent and need to stretch the rotation.

 

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