Author Topic: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?  (Read 3390 times)

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Offline gpap

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2012, 10:32:42 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

Offline BballTim

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2012, 10:42:25 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

  I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.

Offline gpap

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2012, 10:51:56 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

  I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.

We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.

Offline Kane3387

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2012, 10:53:04 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

  I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.

Danny has done more then I could have ever expected him to with what he has to work with. In 2008-09 I thought he sat on the sidelines, but other then not signing David West he has come through with great off-seasons every year.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 01:18:24 PM by Kane3387 »

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Offline BballTim

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2012, 11:02:46 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

  I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.

We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.

  I'm more concerned with the postseason than the standings.

Offline mgent

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2012, 11:56:23 AM »
It's been a month... now Dwight is dropping hints that he'd be open to leaving LA if he doesn't feel they are a contender.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/12/3/3721530/dwight-howard-lakers-championship-magic

Just a reminder that both Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are unrestricted free agents at the end of this year.  You'd think this would be a bigger deal.  I believe Dallas is in position to make a run at both of them.

Clips are poised to make a strong push this season. Don't see CP3 leaving to play with Howard. He already has a stronger supporting cast then Howard and Dirk.

I really strongly disagree. Dirk is a better leader and scorer than anyone on the Clips, Dwight is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on the clips. I guess you could argue Blake is better than Dirk, but Dirk has something Blake doesn't, and that's the ability to score at will, from anywhere. Dwight is already better than Blake.

  Dirk will be 35 before next season starts. I don't think he has too many "score at will" years left.

I had two joke responses:

1) at what age does he stop being 7 feet tall with an unblockable jumpshot?

2) Don't Germans measure years in metric years? If a kilo gram is more than a pound, isn't Dirk actually 32 in American years?

But it's a fair point. I'd say Dirk has more than 2 years remaining as potentially dominant scorer at the 4, but he surely has less years left than Griffin, CP3, or Howard as an elite player.

  We'll see. Right now the only players 36 or older that ever got 20 a game were MJ, Kareem and Malone.
That doesn't mean there hasn't been plenty of 36 year olds that can score at will.  It means teams have a replacement ready because nobody plays much longer than 36.  Instead of being left high and dry they try to integrate other guys into the offense, typically while the older guys sit back and coast to the playoffs.

  Sometimes there's a replacement scorer, but I doubt that it's the case for all but 3 players in nba history. And Malone and Kareem are the only players in that age range that played more than 1 series in the playoffs and averaged 20 or more points, so I don't think that that coasting for the regular season is the issue either.

If Dirk is still getting 17 shots a game next year,  there's no chance he scores less than 20.  Much more likely some of those shots are going to OJ Mayo (or Collison and Crowder).

  If KG and Ray were both getting 17 shots a game they'd be averaging well over 20 a game. The point isn't that players that age can't score efficiently, but they can't carry the load as often or as long as they used to.
1. Well first of all there's less than 40 guys period (let alone scorers) 36 or older that played 70 games and averaged 30 minutes.  Most dominant scorers call it quits earlier whether it's because they want to retire dominant, they want to enjoy their money/family, they don't want to accept smaller roles, or because defensive players typically last longer (it's way easier to hide a guy on offense than defense).  And again, it takes a lot of shots that aren't there for the guys left to score 20.

I bet you I can find a lot more instances where there's younger replacement guys getting more shots as a star nears retirement than you can find where there's an older star being "the guy" (and failing) on a roster full of garbage. 

2. The reason why is because neither is on a team with poor enough players to warrant that many shots, which kinda makes my point.  Put them back on a team like the Wolves or the Sonics and see what happens.  Younger stars command more assets and are much more likely to be on a team all by themselves.  Do you really think someone like 36 year old Duncan couldn't carry the load on a below .500 team and average 1 more point the rest of the season?  Without Parker, Manu, and all the young guys they're trying to develop.
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Offline gpap

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2012, 11:58:13 AM »
....and our roster will feature a 36 year old KG, 35 year old Paul Pierce and Jason Terry :'(

  Which is fine, as long as you a) surround your older players with younger, more athletic players and b) don't depend on them being dominant (individual) scorers and carrying your offense.

Well that may be true, unfortunately Danny hasn't exactly done a good job of surrounding Pierce/KG with real talent other than Rondo

  I disagree. We could obviously use another defender/rebounder, but when you're looking mainly for role players, Bradley/Lee/Terry/Green/Bass/Wilcox/Barbosa is a pretty good group.

We'll see. Hopefully the standings at the end of the season reflect this.

  I'm more concerned with the postseason than the standings.

Me too, that's what I meant. Certainly our current record doesn't reflect well on the type of team we have, however if fare well in the playoffs, much different story!!

Offline scaryjerry

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2012, 12:24:56 PM »
Leave the best upcoming frontline in the Nba to play with a petulant coach killing baby....hopefully Chris paul is smarter than that
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 12:33:21 PM by scaryjerry »

Offline gpap

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2012, 12:51:44 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3

Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.


Offline Kane3387

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2012, 12:56:37 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3

Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.

It wont cut it this year as far as a title is concerned. We need Green, Terry, Bass, Lee, Avery, and Sully to all be big contributors. We also need another big to get bought out eventually and sign with us. I like Wilcox but I don't trust him to be a contributor consistently.

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Offline Who

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2012, 01:01:26 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.

Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.

Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.

Offline Kane3387

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2012, 01:13:37 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.

Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.

Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.

There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.

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Offline AB_Celtic

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2012, 01:27:14 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.

Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.

Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.

There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.

Of course they aren't on that level, but we don't need that level. We need one more fringe all-star and we're in business. We don't need a superstar.
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Offline BballTim

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2012, 03:31:58 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3

  I'm sure that he's come up with every possible scenario to land Howard.

Despite how we do this year, I think come next year a trio of Pierce, KG and Rondo will just simply NOT cut it in the NBA.

  We should play some of the other guys with them then.

Offline gpap

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Re: What's the chances Howard and CP3 join the Mavericks?
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2012, 03:57:31 PM »
I am fully aware no one will agree with me, but if I am Danny I would try to come up with every scenario possible to land Dwight Howard or both Howard and CP3
Neither player is a realistic target. Any efforts made to try and steal them away in free agency will fail. They are both in very good situations with strong talent around them and can be paid more at their current locations than anywhere else.

Nobody is going to be able to make a bid that convinces either one of them to leave their current teams. This isn't Chris Bosh in Toronto or LeBron James in Cleveland. Dwight Howard has Nash, Kobe and Pau Gasol. Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and friends.

Danny needs to focus on targets who are realistically acquirable.

There just aren't any that I can think of at that level of ability. Unless you consider Pau Gasol or Josh Smith on that level.

Of course they aren't on that level, but we don't need that level. We need one more fringe all-star and we're in business. We don't need a superstar.

I disagree with this. I think signing "fringe" players is cutting corners. Remember, 5 years ago KG was a "superstar" player (and despite his age, I think is still considered one today)and that year the Celtics won a title.

You either have a championship caliber team or no team at all. To me, there's no gray area.

If we are talking about guys like Gasol and Smith, that's one thing. But if the goal is continuing to acquire half-as**ed players like Brandon Bass, Jeff Green, Mickael Pietrus and Keyon Dooling, then you're not going anywhere.

 

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