Author Topic: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?  (Read 3800 times)

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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2012, 01:03:50 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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After watching tonights thunder opener against the spurs I can safely agree with you. Yes its one game but Westbrook is a knuckle head. He has such mental lapse that hurt the team so much that its unbearable to watch. The last play of the game with 5 seconds left he was left guarding ABSOLUTELY NOBODY, while his man, Parker, hit a wide open jump shot to win it. I mean there is no exaggeration, he little got juked to guard absolutely no one. Same thing happened on Parkers shot before to tie the game, his defense was terrible.

The guys on Inside the NBA made some great points tonight. Westbrook doesnt make the players on his team better. He is very selfish and turns the ball over at an incredibly high rate. His shot selection is downright awful. If your Westbrook and you have the ball at the three with Durant posting up on your block...10 times out of 10 you give it to Durant in the block not take a fade away three. He forces too much and gets mad at the refs which takes himself out of the game. He really isnt a playmaker. Harden used to give them that. Harden was a guy who could make plays, now they are left with a bunch of one on one individual players who dont like to make their teamates better. Could be a long season in OKC.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2012, 05:26:03 AM »

Offline nostar

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Let's try to be realistic. Yes, Westbrook makes some dumb decisions. On the other hand he averaged 23-5-5 last season on 45% FG and 82% FT in 35 minutes per game. That is pretty good.

I agree he has some things to work on, mental errors are tough to swallow. Then again there are only a couple of guards in the league with out glaring flaws. Our own beloved point guard has a hot temper, can be moody and can't shoot very well. Just to be clear Rondo is my second favorite player behind KG. He's just not perfect.

Oh and about the defensive lapses. Westbrook gambles a lot on defense. Sound familiar? I will say that sometimes he does it at inopportune times but he also comes close to averaging 2 steals a game. It's a trade off but

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2012, 08:03:28 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Oh and about the defensive lapses. Westbrook gambles a lot on defense. Sound familiar? I will say that sometimes he does it at inopportune times but he also comes close to averaging 2 steals a game. It's a trade off but

  The fact that Westbrook and Rondo both gamble at times in no way implies that Westbrook defends anywhere near as well as Rondo.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2012, 08:45:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Oh and about the defensive lapses. Westbrook gambles a lot on defense. Sound familiar? I will say that sometimes he does it at inopportune times but he also comes close to averaging 2 steals a game. It's a trade off but

  The fact that Westbrook and Rondo both gamble at times in no way implies that Westbrook defends anywhere near as well as Rondo.
yeah I found that quite funny.  Westbrook is more in the Iverson mold of defense than the Rondo mold i.e. lots of steals, but not very strong defense on the whole.  Rondo gambles a lot, but is also a superb man to man defender.  He and Chris Paul are pretty similar in that regard and Westbrook is no where near either of them.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2012, 08:51:25 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Oh and about the defensive lapses. Westbrook gambles a lot on defense. Sound familiar? I will say that sometimes he does it at inopportune times but he also comes close to averaging 2 steals a game. It's a trade off but

  The fact that Westbrook and Rondo both gamble at times in no way implies that Westbrook defends anywhere near as well as Rondo.
yeah I found that quite funny.  Westbrook is more in the Iverson mold of defense than the Rondo mold i.e. lots of steals, but not very strong defense on the whole.  Rondo gambles a lot, but is also a superb man to man defender.  He and Chris Paul are pretty similar in that regard and Westbrook is no where near either of them.
Which is a shame because physically he could be absolutely dominant.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 08:52:39 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I didn't like what I saw from Westbrook last night, an awful lot of pouting about calls after barreling into defenders.

He's reminding me more and more of Wade. Which is good and bad I guess.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2012, 08:53:51 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Oh and Durant had the absolutely idiotic goal tend of a ball that was very likely and "and-1" for Westbrook late in the fourth.

That play still sticks out in my mind.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 08:57:54 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Which is a shame because physically he could be absolutely dominant.

This is kind of the story of Westbrook.

I told my friend a while back that Westbrook is a player that may actually improve through injury or something if he lost some of his athleticism.  Because he can pull up for a jumper so quickly at virtually any moment he just takes the worst shots.

To address the OP, I was a big Westbrook fan out of college but his game has not matured how I hoped it would.  I would've rather had Harden.  I think he is a better PG in a lot of ways.


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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 10:28:21 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I tend to think that Westbrook is just slightly a better player than Harden, but that Westbrook's "cache" is more better than Harden's, such that "Westbrook + Harden's-trade-return" is not as good as "Harden + Westbrook's-trade-return." Not sure if that makes sense.

Let's try this analogy: Say that as a player, Westbrook is a $.95 player and Harden is a %.92 player, but Westbrook around the league could fetch $.98 value and Harden could fetch $.88 value.

So Harden + Westrook is like $1.87. Harden + Westbrook's value is $1.90 and but Westbrook + Harden's return (Martin, Lamb, couple of variably protected 1sts) is like $1.83.

This may be completely wrong, but I could imagine a scenario where, despite Westbrook being better than Harden, OKC would be better by trading Westbrook instead of Harden because the proportional return would be greater due the reputation and recognition.

We know Harden fetched Martin, Lamb, and 2 1sts of variable protection.

What would westbrook have fetched this summer? (post his salary/pre recent extensions).

Would Detroit have done Stuckey/Monroe/knight or other?

Would Philly have done Jrue Holiday/Thadeus Young/Moultrie?

Would Toronto have done Lowry/Calderon/Valencuinas for Westbrook/Perk?

Would Memphis do Conley/Wroten/Gasol for Westbrook/Perkins?

Rubio/Pekovic/Ridnour from Minny?


Basically, we know that Westbrook+Harden+Durant+Ibaka+Collison/perkins was a title contender.

So accepting that they had to keep only 2 of Westbrook-Harden-Durant, I think there were ways they could have turned Westbrook into a PG that can shoot, share, defend as well as a legit center for greater roster balance and maybe at the same time ditch the Perk contract.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 10:55:45 PM »

Offline nostar

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I'm hearing a lot of "not a very good comparison" stuff. Guys Rondo is 3 years older than Westbrook and has 2 full NBA season on him, also a much better coach and defesive system to play in. For young guys those differences are huge. Rondo had issues staying on his man a couple of season ago too. My main point is that Westbrook is not the chopped liver some people in this thread are making him out to be. He's a top NBA talent plain and simple. He's also young.

I also want to say that the point people are responding to is one of my lesser points and in no way did I say that Westbrook is as good a defender as Rondo. I don't think that. I do think they have similar tendencies, but I also think Rondo is a smarter player than Westbrook and gambles better.

Saying that Oklahoma City would be better with Harden than Westbrook is silly to me. It would all depend on what point guard they got back for Russ. If they get back Rondo then yeah they are better. They have tons of scoring and a smarter PG. If they get back Kyle Lowry then I'm not sure sure they are better. It's less about Harden vs Westbrook to me and more about Kevin Martin vs ??. Oh and don't forget the 3 picks and Jeremy Lamb.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2012, 10:14:41 PM »

Offline action781

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What could have been in the OKC/Houston trade...

OKC acquired the Toronto pick acquired from Kyle Lowry in the deal.  So from Houston's point of view, they certainly would have sent Lowry to OKC instead of that pick if they still had him.

Would OKC prefer Lowry than the pick?  Likely, but they already have a PG in Westbrook.  BUT, if Lowry was on the table, they could have traded away Westbrook instead of Harden.  Before the season started, Houston would take that in a minute.

OKC's back court would be Lowry and Thabo/Harden instead of Westbrook and Thabo/Martin.

I think this would be a better team with Lowry+Harden instead of Westbrook+Martin.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2012, 12:32:40 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Someone's goTta tell Westbrook to stop shooting so much. I mean game after game he is putting up more shots then the games best scorer and scoring champ. Last night he was 7 for 22 with 16 points while Durant was 11/19 with 24 points. When the games best scorer and scoring that efficiently you need to get him the ball. Until Westbrook learns he is a second banana to Durant I don't think OKC can win a title.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2012, 01:20:00 AM »

Offline Mazingerz

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Short Answer: yes.

Long Answer: POSITIVE.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2012, 07:15:25 AM »

Offline jdz101

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I'm not so sure I would say yes to this.

Russ performed like he embraced the challenge in the finals. Harden was downright pathetic.

Westbrook gets more shots because he starts with the ball and he's one of the more confident guys in the league. For good reason aswell.

If KD and OKC wanted Russ to go to into his shell more and take less offensive opportunities, they would have told him by now.


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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2012, 07:26:43 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I'm not so sure I would say yes to this.

Russ performed like he embraced the challenge in the finals. Harden was downright pathetic.

Westbrook gets more shots because he starts with the ball and he's one of the more confident guys in the league. For good reason aswell.

If KD and OKC wanted Russ to go to into his shell more and take less offensive opportunities, they would have told him by now.

  Not sure I buy the argument that OKC want Russell taking more shots than KD.

 

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