Author Topic: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?  (Read 5014 times)

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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2012, 12:24:46 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The truth is that when you look at our roster, we are actually down a guard.  We have five when a truly balanced roster would have six.  I'm cool with going a guard short and carrying an extra big.

Granted, all our guards are players who deserve minutes, but how many games are we actually going to have all five guards healthy at the same time?

Rondo might end up playing forty a game for the season, but Doc's going to feel much more comfortable resting him for bumps and bruises when he needs to, having the guys he has backing him up this year.

If all five guys are ever healthy at the same time, Lee, Barbosa, or Bradley aren't going to rock the boat over a DNP here or there. 
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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2012, 12:28:30 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Our guard rotation when AB is healthy:

Rondo
Lee
Terry
Barbosa
Bradley

Sorry ya'll gotta stop drinkin the kool aid. Bradley hasnt proven himself and is not as good as the other four guards on our team. I hope AB can find minutes to play tough D for a few minutes a game. But he just isnt as good as the rest of our guards, and 14 good games in a lock out season wont prove me otherwise.

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2012, 01:19:12 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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At the moment I think Courtney Lee is better than Bradley.  I hope I'm wrong, but I see Lee is a vastly superior scorer and probably on the same level defensively. 

While I agree that folks should tone down the hype on Bradley and wait to see how good of a player he is coming back from his surgery, I'm struggling to see from where you are drawing the conclusion that Lee "is a vastly superior scorer".

Bradley played 1368 minutes last year and averaged 12.7 points per 36 minutes.   Yes, he averaged 16.5 per 36 in April (almost 14per for Mar/April combined), but let's include the whole season.  His shooting percentages were 49.8%/40.7%/79.5%.  He averaged 10.6 FGAs and 2.1 FTAs per 36 minutes.

Lee played 1757 minutes last year and averaged 13.5 points per 36 minutes.  His shooting percentages were 43.3%/40.1%/82.6%.  He averaged 11.9 FGA and 1.8 FTA per 36 minutes.

Lee's numbers last year were similar to his career numbers, which have been pretty rock steady.

I'm not going to argue that Bradley is or isn't a better scorer than Lee.  But I see absolutely NO evidence that Lee is a "vastly superior scorer" than Bradley.

Agreed.  LarBrd33 is downplaying Bradley's abilities far more than reasonable caution about small sample size would justify.
He had a month of ridiculous shooting in April (52% FG, 55% from three and 78% from the line)... his percentages in High school (38% from three), College (43% FG, 37% 3P, 54% FT), his rookie season (34% FG, 0% 3P, 50% FT)  and the playoffs (37% FG, 23% 3P, 67% FT) aren't very impressive.  I say there's more evidence to suggest he's a bad shooter than a good one.

I don't think there's any doubt that Lee is a more polished offensive player and a better shooter.  On defense, Lee is already making me a fan.



Oh come on - the 'rookie season' sample size is 162 minutes scattered across 31 games.  He only got more than 10 minutes playing time in TWO of those games!  And the playoff sample is just 240 minutes - while playing with two bad shoulders!   

Your paragraph implicitly gives those two samples equal weight with a whole 1368 minute season!  That's blatant mis-use of statistics.   That's barely 400 minutes of play (scattered in large part across many small snippets of lay) compared to over two thousand minutes that suggest he is a anything BUT a 'bad shooter'.

Bradley logged:

 1003 minutes in college and shot 37.5% from 3PT range.
  290 minutes in the D league and shot 37% from 3PT range.
 1368 minutes in his first real NBA season and shot 40.7%.

I don't have his H.S. minutes handy (I could look them up) but they are probably several hundred more that support this.  He shot 38% from 3PT range in H.S.

In the situations where Bradley has gotten extended run (i.e. multiple games with extended minutes per game) i.e., High School, College, D-League and this last season of the NBA) he has consistently shot between 37% - 40.7% from 3PT range.   

So there is FAR MORE evidence suggesting that he is a good shooter than a bad one.

It is extremely probable that he will likely be somewhere in the range of 37-40% from 3PT land going forward.

I will readily accept your retreat to the assertion that Lee is probably a more 'polished' offensive player.  Given that he has several years of experience on Bradley, that is to be expected.   So far.

It is reasonable to ask folks to tone down the positive hyperbole a bit on Bradley.  But you are yourself pushing the negative hyperbole to an extreme.  It undercuts the credibility of your valid points.

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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2012, 01:46:16 PM »

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At the moment I think Courtney Lee is better than Bradley.  I hope I'm wrong, but I see Lee is a vastly superior scorer and probably on the same level defensively. 

While I agree that folks should tone down the hype on Bradley and wait to see how good of a player he is coming back from his surgery, I'm struggling to see from where you are drawing the conclusion that Lee "is a vastly superior scorer".

Bradley played 1368 minutes last year and averaged 12.7 points per 36 minutes.   Yes, he averaged 16.5 per 36 in April (almost 14per for Mar/April combined), but let's include the whole season.  His shooting percentages were 49.8%/40.7%/79.5%.  He averaged 10.6 FGAs and 2.1 FTAs per 36 minutes.

Lee played 1757 minutes last year and averaged 13.5 points per 36 minutes.  His shooting percentages were 43.3%/40.1%/82.6%.  He averaged 11.9 FGA and 1.8 FTA per 36 minutes.

Lee's numbers last year were similar to his career numbers, which have been pretty rock steady.

I'm not going to argue that Bradley is or isn't a better scorer than Lee.  But I see absolutely NO evidence that Lee is a "vastly superior scorer" than Bradley.

Agreed.  LarBrd33 is downplaying Bradley's abilities far more than reasonable caution about small sample size would justify.
He had a month of ridiculous shooting in April (52% FG, 55% from three and 78% from the line)... his percentages in High school (38% from three), College (43% FG, 37% 3P, 54% FT), his rookie season (34% FG, 0% 3P, 50% FT)  and the playoffs (37% FG, 23% 3P, 67% FT) aren't very impressive.  I say there's more evidence to suggest he's a bad shooter than a good one.

I don't think there's any doubt that Lee is a more polished offensive player and a better shooter.  On defense, Lee is already making me a fan.

Bradley might be the real deal, but it's important to remember it was a lockout shortened season and his huge run happened in the tail of the season when guys like Kevin Seraphin look like superstars.  I've said it before... I'm no more "sold" on Avery Bradley than I am on Kevin Seraphin (averaged 16 points, 7 boards, and 1.7 blocks in April).  The element of surprise matters.  I think Bradley can be good... but I wouldn't pass up the chance to add an established star like Smith if all we had to get rid of was Bradley and change.

Not many would have problems with moving Bradley for a star like Smith (I wouldn't), but that's not what you said - you pegged Bradley as our 5th best guard.

And I don't know why you think 38% from three in high school and college (and later in the D-League) isn't good.  That's very solid.

Bradley's offensive game is remarkably similar to Lee's - transition, off-ball movement and corner 3s and pull-up mid-range J's are what they are good at.  They are both mediocre penetrators given their mediocre handles and tunnel vision.  Lee has more range on his 3 and a longer track record, so I'd give him the slight edge offensively, but Bradley has a significantly better defensive track record (widely hailed as the best perimeter defender in college and heralded with similar acclaim once he got burn in the pros).

If he's healthy, I think Bradley's the 2nd or 3rd best guard in the rotation depending on how Terry fits.
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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2012, 01:59:27 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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With a trade.

Probably not for Josh Smith.

It almost HAS to result in a trade.  I just fail to see how 5 guards deserving of 20-35 minutes a game can all play in the same backcourt.

My hope is we are able to turn our over abundance of guards into a legit starting level PF/C.  Be it Smith, Varejao, or some other impact big, we need an upgrade here.

I have no idea who stays or goes outside of Rondo and Terry though (both will be staying).  Lee, Bradley and Barbosa are all potential trade bait in my eyes.  I will almost guarantee at least one will be traded.

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 02:58:11 PM »

Offline elcotte

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Our guard rotation when AB is healthy:

Rondo
Lee
Terry
Barbosa
Bradley

Sorry ya'll gotta stop drinkin the kool aid. Bradley hasnt proven himself and is not as good as the other four guards on our team. I hope AB can find minutes to play tough D for a few minutes a game. But he just isnt as good as the rest of our guards, and 14 good games in a lock out season wont prove me otherwise.

Depends on who we're playing. Can't wait to see Bradley harass Wade all night long. Lee, Terry and Barbosa won't do it.

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2012, 03:08:30 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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My hope is we are able to turn our over abundance of guards into a legit starting level PF/C.  Be it Smith, Varejao, or some other impact big, we need an upgrade here.

I have no idea who stays or goes outside of Rondo and Terry though (both will be staying).  Lee, Bradley and Barbosa are all potential trade bait in my eyes.  I will almost guarantee at least one will be traded.

I just don't see it happening if you set the bar too high on what you considering a legit starting-level big.

I think you can get a role player who is the big man equivalent of Courtney Lee, but I see Lee as less legit of a starter at SG than Brandon Bass is at PF.  If you do land a "legit" starter, I suspect it's probably going to be a guy who is undervalued because he is a couple of inches shorter than what is considered the ideal height for his position.
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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 03:31:50 PM »

Offline Who

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I think you can get a role player who is the big man equivalent of Courtney Lee, but I see Lee as less legit of a starter at SG than Brandon Bass is at PF.
Why would you consider Bass more of a legit starter than Lee?

I'd view Courtney Lee as the better option as a starting quality player. A much more capable defensive player + is a solid passer / ball-handler who helps his team's ball movement (this is the reason why Lee started ahead of Pietrus in Orlando). Similar scoring ability. Similar weaknesses as possession creators.

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 03:33:01 PM »

Offline Who

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Our guard rotation when AB is healthy:

Rondo
Lee
Terry
Barbosa
Bradley

Sorry ya'll gotta stop drinkin the kool aid. Bradley hasnt proven himself and is not as good as the other four guards on our team. I hope AB can find minutes to play tough D for a few minutes a game. But he just isnt as good as the rest of our guards, and 14 good games in a lock out season wont prove me otherwise.

I have them as:

Rondo (orchestrator)
Bradley (defender, energizer)
Terry (bench scorer/playmaker)

----------------

Lee (extra defender, shooter)
Barbosa (superfluous scorer)

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 03:59:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Our guard rotation when AB is healthy:

Rondo
Lee
Terry
Barbosa
Bradley

Sorry ya'll gotta stop drinkin the kool aid. Bradley hasnt proven himself and is not as good as the other four guards on our team. I hope AB can find minutes to play tough D for a few minutes a game. But he just isnt as good as the rest of our guards, and 14 good games in a lock out season wont prove me otherwise.

  I think Doc's drinking the kool aid as well, I'm pretty sure I read that they're expecting Bradley to get a lot of playing time when he's healthy.

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 04:00:19 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think you can get a role player who is the big man equivalent of Courtney Lee, but I see Lee as less legit of a starter at SG than Brandon Bass is at PF.
Why would you consider Bass more of a legit starter than Lee?

I haven't crunched the numbers and actually counted the number of players, but looking at the depth charts, I suspect there are fewer starting SGs that I think are clearly inferior to Lee than there are fewer starting PFs that I think are clearly inferior to Bass.  I'm sure others disagree with me, but I wouldn't want to swap Bass for Kris Humphries.
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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 04:11:02 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan06

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Bradley starts because I think he helps establish a good rhythm defensively for the team.  After that its a mess but I presume

JET/LEE depending on matchups with JET getting preference for minutes

Barbosa gets some minutes as Rondo's backup what I think it does is either JET and Rondo or Rondo and Barbosa will spend little to no time on the floor together minutes will get crowded for sure unless there is a trade....

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2012, 12:05:37 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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bump....anybody changed their opinion on this?
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Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2012, 12:08:31 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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havent read the thread , but to me

pg: Rondo 35 mpg / Bradley 13 mpg
sg: Braley 20 mpg/ Terry 18- 20 mpg / Lee 8-10 mpg

Lee has to be the odd man out and probably trade bait for a big man along with Bass/sully/melo and picks

Re: Once Bradley comes back, how does this guard rotation play out?
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2012, 12:08:49 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Our guard rotation when AB is healthy:

Rondo
Lee
Terry
Barbosa
Bradley

Sorry ya'll gotta stop drinkin the kool aid. Bradley hasnt proven himself and is not as good as the other four guards on our team. I hope AB can find minutes to play tough D for a few minutes a game. But he just isnt as good as the rest of our guards, and 14 good games in a lock out season wont prove me otherwise.

  I think Doc's drinking the kool aid as well, I'm pretty sure I read that they're expecting Bradley to get a lot of playing time when he's healthy.

Oh Joy.

My opinion has changed slightly:

Rondo
Terry
Lee
Bradley
Barbosa.

Bradley should get more minutes over Barbosa. I still think Bradley should be traded to the highest bidder in the big market.