Author Topic: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.  (Read 11618 times)

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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 10:17:47 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Taj Gibson's 4 year $38 mil contract is worse
Wow, that was unnecessary. They should have waited until next summer if they couldn't get a more cost-effective deal now. No need to force through a deal like that when he'll be a restricted free agent next summer.

It's a good deal if you think he will get a bigger offer from another team next summer.
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 12:31:48 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Didn't Ainge originally try to get Harden for Perk? 

Man... Jeff Green better have a big season or that will continue to be a depressing "what-if".

Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2012, 01:15:59 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Didn't Ainge originally try to get Harden for Perk? 

Man... Jeff Green better have a big season or that will continue to be a depressing "what-if".

I'm not sure how depressing it can be if your "what if" is "what if Presti said yes instead of no".
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2012, 01:36:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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DeMarr DeRozan getting 4 years and $40 million is what is wrong with the NBA not Harden's contract.

Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2012, 01:40:40 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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DeMarr DeRozan getting 4 years and $40 million is what is wrong with the NBA not Harden's contract.

Well put.  I think there are tons of bad deals right now in the NBA even if you overpay, as long as its for a true top tier guy like Harden, it isnt going to be a problem. 
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2012, 02:38:39 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Didn't Ainge originally try to get Harden for Perk? 

Man... Jeff Green better have a big season or that will continue to be a depressing "what-if".
Ainge may have wanted Harden, but it didn't seem like OKC had any interest in trading him for what we were offering. The valued him way more than Green, so there really isn't a "what-if" to think about there.

Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2012, 02:51:47 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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DeMarr DeRozan getting 4 years and $40 million is what is wrong with the NBA not Harden's contract.

Toronto is also paying Bargnani $10m/yr, so DeRozan's contract is probably more evidence of what is wrong with the Raptors than what is wrong with the NBA.
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 01:16:48 AM »

Offline ItStaysYang

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Where's the original poster now?  :-X


Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 01:41:36 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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James Harden could be a top 5 SG in the league. Take his age into account and i can't think of someone I'd rather have over him.

Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 08:54:28 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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James Harden could be a top 5 SG in the league. Take his age into account and i can't think of someone I'd rather have over him.

I don't think you needed to say "could be" here and in fact I think he may be top 3.  Not the strongest position right now through and through but the top few are strong and he's right there.  To me he's top 2.

And then you have to acknowledge that he can play SF and he is also a top player there.

I couldn't disagree with the OP more.  Harden is very deserving of the contract.  I know it was one game, but in that first Houston game you can clearly see what he can do with more usage.  He is a multi dimensional player and will only get better.
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 08:59:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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James Harden could be a top 5 SG in the league. Take his age into account and i can't think of someone I'd rather have over him.

I don't think you needed to say "could be" here and in fact I think he may be top 3.  Not the strongest position right now through and through but the top few are strong and he's right there.  To me he's top 2.

I couldn't disagree with the OP more.  Harden is very deserving of the contract.  I know it was one game, but in that first Houston game you can clearly see what he can do with more usage.  He is a multi dimensional player and will only get better.
He is a very good player and worth the contract in today's NBA, but I don't think James Harden is going to lead any team to a title as his teams best player.  Which means they gave him a lot of money and gave up a kings ransom to get him, which probably wasn't the wisest move.  I mean is Harden, Lin, Asik, etc. as a base ever really going to form a title contender.  If not, then why waste all of those pieces and the cap space to trade and then sign him.  I just don't know what Houston is doing.
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 09:05:16 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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James Harden could be a top 5 SG in the league. Take his age into account and i can't think of someone I'd rather have over him.

I don't think you needed to say "could be" here and in fact I think he may be top 3.  Not the strongest position right now through and through but the top few are strong and he's right there.  To me he's top 2.

I couldn't disagree with the OP more.  Harden is very deserving of the contract.  I know it was one game, but in that first Houston game you can clearly see what he can do with more usage.  He is a multi dimensional player and will only get better.
He is a very good player and worth the contract in today's NBA, but I don't think James Harden is going to lead any team to a title as his teams best player.  Which means they gave him a lot of money and gave up a kings ransom to get him, which probably wasn't the wisest move.  I mean is Harden, Lin, Asik, etc. as a base ever really going to form a title contender.  If not, then why waste all of those pieces and the cap space to trade and then sign him.  I just don't know what Houston is doing.

I don't disagree that he doesn't make them a title contender but let's be real.  LeBron James wasn't enough to get to the title alone.  I don't see this as a knock on Harden but just the reality of what it takes to compete in the NBA.

We have seen now that you need probably three star players to contend for a title now.

Houston has said openly they are looking for another star caliber player to add to Harden.  The guy Harden reminds me of is Manu Ginobili (with a higher ceiling, considering his age) and of course Manu was part of a three man core that contended for titles, and he wasn't the team's best player either. 

I think Harden could perhaps be the best player on a title team given his age right now, but even if he's not that isn't a knock to me.  I don't think they gave up too much or are paying him too much either.

What he does do as well is make Houston a more attractive landing spot for a big free agent.
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Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 09:38:06 AM »

Offline ManUp

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Jeff Grees's (sorry)contract is what's wrong with the NBa. Even if he does pan out it doesn't change the fact that we paid for what he could become instead of what he is. Teams pay more for potential than actual production. I don't think Harden is a max player (imo, very few players getting paid the max are worth it), but the way other guys are getting paid why shouldn't he get the max.


Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2012, 10:29:40 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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The more restrictive a "max contract" becomes, the more players are deserving of the max. Lebron james is "worth" twice the max easily but he cannot get it. So when you artificially cap tje truly elite players, there is no proportional depreciation of salaries of the next tier; that tier is not overpaid, its just that there are really 3 types if max guys: underpaid, overpaid, appropriately paid. But once you hit tje max there is no way to rectify being underpaid.


Interestingly while the salary cap is designed to promote parity, individual max contracts promotes super teams.

Re: Harden getting Max dollars, Is what's wrong with the NBA.
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2012, 10:43:38 AM »

Offline Moranis

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James Harden could be a top 5 SG in the league. Take his age into account and i can't think of someone I'd rather have over him.

I don't think you needed to say "could be" here and in fact I think he may be top 3.  Not the strongest position right now through and through but the top few are strong and he's right there.  To me he's top 2.

I couldn't disagree with the OP more.  Harden is very deserving of the contract.  I know it was one game, but in that first Houston game you can clearly see what he can do with more usage.  He is a multi dimensional player and will only get better.
He is a very good player and worth the contract in today's NBA, but I don't think James Harden is going to lead any team to a title as his teams best player.  Which means they gave him a lot of money and gave up a kings ransom to get him, which probably wasn't the wisest move.  I mean is Harden, Lin, Asik, etc. as a base ever really going to form a title contender.  If not, then why waste all of those pieces and the cap space to trade and then sign him.  I just don't know what Houston is doing.

I don't disagree that he doesn't make them a title contender but let's be real.  LeBron James wasn't enough to get to the title alone.  I don't see this as a knock on Harden but just the reality of what it takes to compete in the NBA.

We have seen now that you need probably three star players to contend for a title now.

Houston has said openly they are looking for another star caliber player to add to Harden.  The guy Harden reminds me of is Manu Ginobili (with a higher ceiling, considering his age) and of course Manu was part of a three man core that contended for titles, and he wasn't the team's best player either. 

I think Harden could perhaps be the best player on a title team given his age right now, but even if he's not that isn't a knock to me.  I don't think they gave up too much or are paying him too much either.

What he does do as well is make Houston a more attractive landing spot for a big free agent.
Of course you need more than 1 player, but there is no one in the world that thought Lebron James couldn't win a title as his teams best player.  He didn't have a strong enough supporting cast in Cleveland, but everyone knew if he had a stronger supporting cast he could have. 

James Harden isn't that guy.  His skill set isn't good enough to win a title as his teams best player and I don't think it ever will be (I mean I suppose he could be in a Detroit Pistons type situation, but those are really really rare titles).  And it isn't like he is joining a team that has some other "star" players on it.  Houston is now good enough to make the playoffs (or just miss them), but not near good enough to win a title.  They won't have cap space any time soon, and gave up a lot of their real good trade chips, all to hit mediocrity.  It was a stupid trade for Houston.
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