Author Topic: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?  (Read 12510 times)

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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2012, 12:28:17 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Well if you want to hide Sully's lack of defensive abilities and still maximize his abilities as a productive offensive player, there's no better way of doing it than making him play with the starters most of his minutes.
Except that making him play against taller, starting-caliber PFs is probably not maximizing his abilities as a productive offensive player.
I have never equated size with defensive or offensive ability. talent yes, size, no.
I've said nothing about size. I've just said he's known to have problems finishing against taller opposition, so I'm not sure making him go against the Josh Smiths and Chris Boshes of the world will maximize his ability.

That doesn't mean he won't start, whether it's right away or later on, but there's no guarantee that he is, at this point, ready and able to deal with this level of competition. I'm refusing to take two games agains European opponents as conslusive indicator of anything.

But in the case of the Heat, Bosh is the starting center, so he'd be guarded by Battier or Lebron, but most likely Battier.  (Frankly, Miami has my permission to waste Lebron's defense by having him guard Sully.)  Offensively, he'll probably be able to handle that matchup.  The concern vs. the Heat will be defensive, because now he has to guard Battier's perimeter jump shots.  That said, this would be a similar issue with Bass starting.  (I know Bass had a good few minutes vs. Lebron defensively in the ECF, but my money is on Lebron to exploit that matchup if it appears for the majority of the game.)

At least vs. the Heat, the argument could be made that the appropriate bench player to start would be Green, not Sully.

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2012, 12:31:58 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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in the end I think it will be Bass starting
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2012, 12:35:50 PM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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The quickest way to bring Sully along is to play him with the starters. Sully is a strong rebounder which is what the starters have lacked these last few years.

I do believe Doc is on the right track with this. The Darko,Bass,Green second unit looks effective in 2 preseason games.

Eventually once Bradley gets healthy I think we will see the starting unit of
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Sully
Garnett

and a second unit of

Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Darko




Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2012, 01:43:51 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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With Garnett's 5-5-5 minute distribution, I think Doc can get Sully just as much minutes alongside KG off the bench as he can with Sully in the starting lineup.

However, in the bench role, Sully will be matched up mostly against backup big men who are mostly inferior offensive threats relative to starting PFs and inferior defensive players who are less capable of stopping him.

I think Sully will take the starting spot from Bass at some point but I believe he'll need to play passable (albeit below average) defense before that happens. Not sure when that will be. Maybe at some point this season and almost definitely by next season. I am taking a more cautious view and am expecting it to be next season. It would be great if he could win that starting spot this year though. I love his offense/rebounding as a complement to that starting unit.

TP

The thing to figure out to me will be how the rotations will work. You start both KG and Sully but when KG subs out at the 5min mark who comes in? I'm assuming JT and Green are gonna be the 1st players off the bench to come in. That leaves a smallish frontcourt to handle some of the other teams starters for another min or 2 until maybe Darko or Bass comes in?? I'd assume Darko so he could be the backstop while Green plays a few min at the 4 until Pierce subs out and Bass would likely come in for him. Does that sound right? Sully would have to hold down the fort at center against the opponent's top center for maybe another 2 min until the next sub when Darko would come in for him.  Wow...who saw this possibility coming? Jared Sullinger, a rookie, starting at the 4 for a title contending team. And then Darko Milicic playing an important role in the 9-10 man rotation.
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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2012, 01:45:26 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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The quickest way to bring Sully along is to play him with the starters. Sully is a strong rebounder which is what the starters have lacked these last few years.

I do believe Doc is on the right track with this. The Darko,Bass,Green second unit looks effective in 2 preseason games.

Eventually once Bradley gets healthy I think we will see the starting unit of
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Sully
Garnett

and a second unit of

Terry
Lee
Green
Bass
Darko

Don't forget Wilcox!

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2012, 01:57:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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in the end I think it will be Bass starting
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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2012, 01:58:02 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Well Doc has been raving about Sullinger for quite some time now. I think it all depends on how Sully is fitting into the defense. If the Celtics' defense can function at the elite level with him at the 4, then I'm for it. Sully brings more to the table than Bass on the offensive end and he's undoubtedly a smarter player than Bass.

I loved Bass last year but we put him in the starting role out of desperation. He was really suited more for being the scoring punch off the bench as our sixth man. His numbers didn't really improve that much when he was inserted into the starting 5, and now he's being paid good money, so I don't think there's much to complain about if he's put on the second unit.

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2012, 02:44:09 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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It would help Sullinger's case for starting if he has a few spots on the floor where he is comfortable taking an open mid-range jumper (and where Rondo is comfortable passing to him when he is open).
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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2012, 03:00:31 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Well Doc has been raving about Sullinger for quite some time now. I think it all depends on how Sully is fitting into the defense. If the Celtics' defense can function at the elite level with him at the 4, then I'm for it. Sully brings more to the table than Bass on the offensive end and he's undoubtedly a smarter player than Bass.

I loved Bass last year but we put him in the starting role out of desperation. He was really suited more for being the scoring punch off the bench as our sixth man. His numbers didn't really improve that much when he was inserted into the starting 5, and now he's being paid good money, so I don't think there's much to complain about if he's put on the second unit.

"His numbers didn't really improve that much," that's because they didn't improve. His numbers were better off the bench, it's why I keep saying he's better suited as bench player for us, where the impact his strengths are augmented and his weaknesses diminished.

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2012, 03:02:57 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Well Doc has been raving about Sullinger for quite some time now. I think it all depends on how Sully is fitting into the defense. If the Celtics' defense can function at the elite level with him at the 4, then I'm for it. Sully brings more to the table than Bass on the offensive end and he's undoubtedly a smarter player than Bass.

I loved Bass last year but we put him in the starting role out of desperation. He was really suited more for being the scoring punch off the bench as our sixth man. His numbers didn't really improve that much when he was inserted into the starting 5, and now he's being paid good money, so I don't think there's much to complain about if he's put on the second unit.

"His numbers didn't really improve that much," that's because they didn't improve. His numbers were better off the bench, it's why I keep saying he's better suited as bench player for us, where the impact his strengths are augmented and his weaknesses diminished.
Right. You can flip this argument around and say that since you can plug him in the starting lineup without loss of production, he's a natural starter.
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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2012, 06:42:21 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Well Doc has been raving about Sullinger for quite some time now. I think it all depends on how Sully is fitting into the defense. If the Celtics' defense can function at the elite level with him at the 4, then I'm for it. Sully brings more to the table than Bass on the offensive end and he's undoubtedly a smarter player than Bass.

I loved Bass last year but we put him in the starting role out of desperation. He was really suited more for being the scoring punch off the bench as our sixth man. His numbers didn't really improve that much when he was inserted into the starting 5, and now he's being paid good money, so I don't think there's much to complain about if he's put on the second unit.

"His numbers didn't really improve that much," that's because they didn't improve. His numbers were better off the bench, it's why I keep saying he's better suited as bench player for us, where the impact his strengths are augmented and his weaknesses diminished.
Right. You can flip this argument around and say that since you can plug him in the starting lineup without loss of production, he's a natural starter.

Other than I'm not arguing whether Bass is a bench or starter player. I'm arguing where he fits best for us, and where he's more useful for us and I think in my opinion it's from the bench.

The other side is that when he was plugged as a starter his productivity per minute was diminished to go along with a lowering of efficiency. Which is interesting since most of his minutes as a starter came late in the season when he was playing alongside a rejuvenated KG and Rondo was playing like the best PG in the league.

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2012, 08:02:07 PM »

Offline Jon

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For most of the summer, I was against Sully starting for much of the same reason that many said here: I thought he'd be an asset on the bench being able to score in the post and could take advantage of weaker backups.  Bass isn't posting up anyone; so it doesn't really matter if he's matched up against starters or bench players. 

I still think that may indeed be the case.  However, I do think there's another side to it. 

I think there's an argument to be made that the starting lineup needs scoring punch more than the bench.  At this point in their careers, Terry and Green may be better at getting a shot off on their own than Pierce and KG (collectively). 

Furthermore, if Rondo is going to play slower while KG and PP are out there, it might be Sullinger's best interest to play with the starters to get post opportunities.

Then Doc can bring in Bass (who is a great finisher) to run alongside the likes of Green, Terry, and either Lee or Bradley with a second unit. 

I think there's pros and cons to each side, so I wouldn't lose much sleep over it. 

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2012, 11:33:21 PM »

Offline BostonNative

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ill be honest... I have been thinking about KG being the 6th man lol... I know I will get a lot of backlash for this but with rondo scoring like he is it wouldn't be a bad idea. then you can reserve KG for playoff time baby! and maybe add some more years to him.

rondo
AB
PP
Sully
Darko

Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2012, 01:37:57 AM »

Offline snively

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With Garnett's 5-5-5 minute distribution, I think Doc can get Sully just as much minutes alongside KG off the bench as he can with Sully in the starting lineup.

How do you figure?  20 of KG's 30 mpg are with the starters typically - the 5 at the beginning and end of each half.  I think if you want Sully getting 20 mpg without exposing him defensively, you've got to start him. 
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Re: Doc hinting at starting Sullinger over Bass?
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2012, 01:55:47 AM »

Offline blink

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let me be the first to give you some backlash...haha
KG is the MAN, not the 6th man.  I want KG setting the tone at the start of every game and playing with Rondo and PP.  I can't think of any reason to not start KG that helps our team.  I mean his minutes are already getting monitored.

ill be honest... I have been thinking about KG being the 6th man lol... I know I will get a lot of backlash for this but with rondo scoring like he is it wouldn't be a bad idea. then you can reserve KG for playoff time baby! and maybe add some more years to him.

rondo
AB
PP
Sully
Darko

 

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