The league is packed with talent right now and I think it might be due to HGH

[Eja117]

I've noticed this because of fantasy basketball and the recent espn rankings. There were good prospects ranked in the 400s. We have enough talent to fill large rosters for 20 teams now.  And you look at it and you think "Man. These guys just aren't retiring". You have guys at advanced ages getting horrid injuries and coming back to play at a high level (like KG). Can you really tell the difference between Steve Nash and a 32 year old? Can you tell any difference between a 32/33 year old Pau Gasol and a 27 year old?  Camby is still in this league. Look at Grant Hill and Jason Kidd.  Something has changed. One way or another whether it's HGH or international talent the league/world has enough talent to sustain 3 more teams easily. Money is another matter but talent isn't.  I thiiinnnkkk that having so much talent in the NBA has filtered to Europe and around the world so all leagues have more talent now. And it's happening overseas too. Sarunas Jasikevicus is like 34 and still playing.  I don't think players are in as big a rush to get here now because of it. You see teams drafting guys like Mirotic and Bogdanovic and they aren't expected to come till 2015 or something.  I definitely think things are different

[indeedproceed]

I think the league has changed because players are now taught from a young age to take care of their bodies, and teams are investing more and more each year so that players who are serious about staying healthy have access to the most advanced treatments and comprehensive nutrition plans available.

I never really invest too much speculation into PED's possible influence, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. However, I'm much more of a 'when there is smoke, there is fire' kind of guy, and we haven't even seen any kind of smoke yet.

[Interceptor]

Definitely suspect medical advances before suspecting HGH. Bird would have lasted a lot longer in this era.

[Rondo2287]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

[Chris]

I think there are lots of reasons that there are more athletic guys, and more guys staying healthy a long time.  But I am not sure it really changes the overall talent level that much.  Because there is also a backlash effect of these super athletes, because they aren't learning the skills like they used to.

These days, you have kids spending more hours in the weight room, when they would have been in the Gym 20-30 years ago.  It might make them more able to make spectacular dunks, but doesn't necessarily make them better basketball players. 

Clearly the game has changed and evolved over the years, but I think the number of weak players is just as high as it was in the past...its just the weak players are now weeded out for different reasons than they were before.

[RyNye]

The globalization of the game, advances in medical technology/techniques/knowledge, the increased cheapness and availability of high quality equipment and training facilities ... there are a lot of non-sinister reasons for the amount of talent out there.

I think what is telling, though, is that there is a lot of All-Star or borderline All-Star talent, but not a lot of SUPERSTARS. At least, the ratio of superstars to the rest of the league has remained relatively constant, but the baseline average of talent has raised. This is pretty good evidence that this isn't due to HGH or anything.

[indeedproceed]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

I thought the article rather well...dumb. The article, summed up in less than 20 words: "Other sports denied all knowledge before they got busted. Wade denied all knowledge. Basketball is a sport."

It's your typical fence-sitter, no substance, waste of space article.

A preview from next week's 'expose':

"I'm not saying someone in the athletic department at From-my-Butt University has used their position and influence to molest young boys, but recent denial from AD Frank Madeuperton has to have you wondering.

Everyone from the dean at PSU to the janitors said they didn't know anything about Jerry Sandusky before it was shown that they..well, knew something about Jerry Sandusky.

FMBU hasn't had a major sexual abuse scandal, so it's no problem for AD Madeuperton. Nobody has pointed an accusatory finger at Fake Football Coach, Fake basketball coach, or Fake Baseball Coach, for that matter. So it's not a problem for them, either.

But problems tend to announce themselves at their own time, so let's go easy on the "It's nothing I think takes place" stuff. It surely does. It may be isolated, and it may be miniscule, but it's there because nobody at this level of income and revenue can assume that it isn't. That would be madness.

And, given the new Sandusky/Fine revelations/claims, madness is where you find it."

[RJ87]

I think a widespread HGH problem in the NBA would be pretty hard to cover up. Looking at how its impacted the MLB, I just think there would be substantial whispers about it. Especially given the way the NBA is so superstar centric.

[bdm860]

Can you really tell the difference between Steve Nash and a 32 year old? Can you tell any difference between a 32/33 year old Pau Gasol and a 27 year old?  Camby is still in this league. Look at Grant Hill and Jason Kidd.  Something has changed.

In regards to this part, yes I can tell the difference between a 27 year old Nash and a 32 year old Nash, but I don't really think anything has changed.

In the 2000's, you had Kevin Willis, Dikembe Mutombo, Cliff Robinson, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Oakley and Michael Jordan play past 40.

In the 1990's you had Herb Williams, Rick Mahorn, Danny Schayes, Charles Jones, Robert Parish, John Long, and James Edwards play past 40.

And only a very few players (Kareem, Cousy, Nat Hickey) in all the years before the 90’s.

So in the 2000's you had 7 guys play past 40, but in the 1990's with less teams you still had 7 guys play past 40. And so far in 2010's we've had 2 guys play past 40 (Kurt Thomas and Grant Hill).  So to me it doesn’t look like anything has changed here except the NBA added a lot more teams starting in the late 80’s.  Unless you think James Edwards, Herb Williams, and John Long were the early adapters of HGH.

And a lot of these older guys just get by on name recognition.  I think there's a big difference between Steve Nash and Jason Kidd now and 5 years ago.  Jason Kidd only averaged 6.2ppg and 5.5apg last year on 36% shooting. I think everyone of us can see a huge difference between Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen now and 5 years ago.

And let's not forget rule changes that encourage must less contact.  Players now don't go through the beatings that players from the past had to.

Not to say there isn't PED use, but player longevity isn't an indicator.

[Rondo2287]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

I thought the article rather well...dumb. The article, summed up in less than 20 words: "Other sports denied all knowledge before they got busted. Wade denied all knowledge. Basketball is a sport."

It's your typical fence-sitter, no substance, waste of space article.

I disagree, I mean if you were hoping it would have inside information on steroids in basketball than ya, you were let down.  But reinforcing the point that muscles isnt the only barometer of PED's is important.  A basketball player could gain a much greater advantage by increasing spead, reactions, jumping and rehab than other sports where people desire more power. 

[fairweatherfan]

And let's not forget rule changes that encourage must less contact.  Players now don't go through the beatings that players from the past had to.

This is a really good point.  Players today have better training and they're more protected by the rules than in past generations.  PED use is definitely happening to some degree, but older players sticking around isn't necessarily the smoking gun.

I love how many vets are staying effective through their mid- to late-30s though.  Makes the league a lot deeper after expansion diluted the talent for about 15 years.

[indeedproceed]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

I thought the article rather well...dumb. The article, summed up in less than 20 words: "Other sports denied all knowledge before they got busted. Wade denied all knowledge. Basketball is a sport."

It's your typical fence-sitter, no substance, waste of space article.

I disagree, I mean if you were hoping it would have inside information on steroids in basketball than ya, you were let down.  But reinforcing the point that muscles isnt the only barometer of PED's is important.  A basketball player could gain a much greater advantage by increasing spead, reactions, jumping and rehab than other sports where people desire more power.

But isn't that point true in virtually every sport?

[Roy H.]

I suspect that there's widespread use of HGH and similar drugs in the four major sports.

[Rondo2287]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

I thought the article rather well...dumb. The article, summed up in less than 20 words: "Other sports denied all knowledge before they got busted. Wade denied all knowledge. Basketball is a sport."

It's your typical fence-sitter, no substance, waste of space article.

I disagree, I mean if you were hoping it would have inside information on steroids in basketball than ya, you were let down.  But reinforcing the point that muscles isnt the only barometer of PED's is important.  A basketball player could gain a much greater advantage by increasing spead, reactions, jumping and rehab than other sports where people desire more power.

But isn't that point true in virtually every sport?

When I think of Football and hitting a Baseball I think Strength is one of the best enhancements that PED's can provide you.  I don't think its as applicable in basketball because the attributes I just mentioned are probably more desirable than strength.  I mean Rashard Lewis never really struck me as being jacked, but he is the one that got caught. 

[indeedproceed]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15093944/wades-denial-of-peds-in-nba-hardly-believable

Decent article on the topic.  Could we get the refs some of those PED's that enhance eyesight?

I thought the article rather well...dumb. The article, summed up in less than 20 words: "Other sports denied all knowledge before they got busted. Wade denied all knowledge. Basketball is a sport."

It's your typical fence-sitter, no substance, waste of space article.

I disagree, I mean if you were hoping it would have inside information on steroids in basketball than ya, you were let down.  But reinforcing the point that muscles isnt the only barometer of PED's is important.  A basketball player could gain a much greater advantage by increasing spead, reactions, jumping and rehab than other sports where people desire more power.

But isn't that point true in virtually every sport?

When I think of Football and hitting a Baseball I think Strength is one of the best enhancements that PED's can provide you.  I don't think its as applicable in basketball because the attributes I just mentioned are probably more desirable than strength.  I mean Rashard Lewis never really struck me as being jacked, but he is the one that got caught.

IIRC Rashard Lewis said he had bought an OTC supplement back in 2006 that he didn't know contained banned substances. People generally bought that explanation. I'm not sure you can use him as a template for PED abuse.