Author Topic: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..  (Read 9473 times)

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Online saltlover

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 12:27:48 PM »
I doubt Josh Smith comes here.  If he does, it will be next offseason.

I think the Celtics would be a great team with Josh Smith.  I think they are a great team now.  Getting Josh Smith for this season seems unnecessary, but getting him in the off-season for several years would improve the franchise in the long run.

I am pledging to not talk about Josh Smith again until June.  I encourage everyone else to do the same (except, of course, when we play the Hawks.)

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 12:31:34 PM »
Josh smith would significantly make this team better. He would instantly be the second best defender on the team behind Garnett and playing alongside Garnett might make him the best defender on the team. He averaged better numbers then anyone on our team last year. We would become a significantly better defensive team, hard to believe, and would be able to run much more. I love bass but smith would be a huge huge huge upgrade over him in the starting lineup.

Imagine the starting five of rondo Bradley pierce smith and kg getting turn overs and running the break. We could even play super small ball with a stellar line up of rondo terry lee green and smith. Grabbing smith would bring us from number 5 or 6 contender to 1 or 2.
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Offline snively

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 12:41:45 PM »
I think Smith + Rondo would work beautifully together offensively - very similar to the Nash/Marion duo that was so potent in Phoenix.  The Smith/KG frontcourt pairing is also extremely appealing.

Very difficult to construct a deal that would be pleasing to Atlanta though.  If Jeff Green can play his way into positive trade value, maybe. 
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Offline Kane3387

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2012, 01:19:38 PM »
What about a Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp comparison? Smith is only 5 lbs lighter and 1 inch smaller then Kemp was in his prime.

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Offline Chris

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »
I think Smith + Rondo would work beautifully together offensively - very similar to the Nash/Marion duo that was so potent in Phoenix.  The Smith/KG frontcourt pairing is also extremely appealing.

Very difficult to construct a deal that would be pleasing to Atlanta though.  If Jeff Green can play his way into positive trade value, maybe.

I think there is a HUGE difference offensively with Nash/Marion from Rondo/Smith, because of the dramatically different shooting abilities.  But, defensively, Rondo and Smith would be a scary combination.

I agree that there just aren't many deals that make much sense for both teams though.

Offline Kane3387

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2012, 01:28:09 PM »
How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith.  Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways.  And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox. 

To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley?  With that line up, #18 is guaranteed


Why does Atlanta make this trade?

Bass is a good role player and Wilcox was serviceable as a backup.  How does that equal near all-star level on the last year of a contract?

I think the most realistic trade we would do for Smith would be the following:

Brandon Bass, Fab Melo, and Avery Bradley (picks and fillers might need to be added)

We aren't giving up Both Bass and Sullinger. I also think Sullinger will evolve as our most valuable rookie contract deal. He's in the first year of his deal where as Bradley will be up for an extension soon. We have 21+ mill committed to Rondo, Lee, and Jet over the next 3+ years. Where is the money for AB going to come from?

Bradley and Fab give Atlanta potential and cheap salary. They can eventually compliment Horford. Bass is a fair deal that can realistically be moved later on, but 6 mill isn't a bad deal for a guy like Bass.

I think that is the best deal Atlanta would get from us.

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Offline Kane3387

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »
Josh Smith is 6-8 to 6-9 and weighs 225 to 230lbs.

He is an undersized power forward (undersized quick four).

Shawn Kemp was 6'10" and 230. He was pretty good in Seattle. The league is smaller then it was in the 90s and early 2000s. Smith can play the 4 based on his size. His shot selection and offensive skill set are what make people feel he is "positionless" at neither being a 3 or a 4.

Playing with Rondo and passers like KG and Pierce can improve that efficiency.

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Offline ManUp

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2012, 01:33:05 PM »
I also want Kobe money on my next contract, but as we know you don't always get what you want. Smith is likely to get paid close to 70 mill on a 5 year deal, fair value imo. He's a dynamic double double big in his prime who has helped lead his team to the play-offs multiple times. He has to create a lot of his own offense with the Hawks, so his efficiency probably jumps playing next to Rondo. I would love him on this team.

Offline Kane3387

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2012, 01:43:09 PM »
Quote
I think the most realistic trade we would do for Smith would be the following:

Brandon Bass, Fab Melo, and Avery Bradley (picks and fillers might need to be added)

We aren't giving up Both Bass and Sullinger. I also think Sullinger will evolve as our most valuable rookie contract deal. He's in the first year of his deal where as Bradley will be up for an extension soon. We have 21+ mill committed to Rondo, Lee, and Jet over the next 3+ years. Where is the money for AB going to come from?

Bradley and Fab give Atlanta potential and cheap salary. They can eventually compliment Horford. Bass is a fair deal that can realistically be moved later on, but 6 mill isn't a bad deal for a guy like Bass.

I think that is the best deal Atlanta would get from us.

According to the trade machine on ESPN the Celtics would have to trade an additional $1,663,450 in filler to make the deal I proposed above.

This is because we used the MLE on Jet. Trade Machine tells you this if you do a deal with the salary they have in there for Darko along with Avery and Fab for Smith. Then you just do the math. It says you have to get rid of an extra 2,435,450 but you subtract from that the 772,000 that is the difference between Darko and Bass.

Thus at 1,663,4450 you would have to add a Jason Collins and Chris Wilcox to the deal. I believe Bass, Wilcox, Collins, Bradley, and Melo would provide the salary to get Smith in Green with our cap restraints. Picks would probably be swapped also.

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Offline rondohondo

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2012, 01:52:16 PM »
How about Bass, Wilcox, Melo, Kris Joseph, and two draft picks for Smith.  Besides Bass and Wilcox, those other ones are scrubs that won't be on the floor much anyways.  And we can afford to do without Bass and Wilcox. 

To people who are saying they don't understand the love affair, do you know how scary we'll be with a starting line-up of Rondo, Pierce, KG, Smith, and Bradley?  With that line up, #18 is guaranteed


Why does Atlanta make this trade?

Bass is a good role player and Wilcox was serviceable as a backup.  How does that equal near all-star level on the last year of a contract?

I think the most realistic trade we would do for Smith would be the following:

Brandon Bass, Fab Melo, and Avery Bradley (picks and fillers might need to be added)

We aren't giving up Both Bass and Sullinger. I also think Sullinger will evolve as our most valuable rookie contract deal. He's in the first year of his deal where as Bradley will be up for an extension soon. We have 21+ mill committed to Rondo, Lee, and Jet over the next 3+ years. Where is the money for AB going to come from?

Bradley and Fab give Atlanta potential and cheap salary. They can eventually compliment Horford. Bass is a fair deal that can realistically be moved later on, but 6 mill isn't a bad deal for a guy like Bass.

I think that is the best deal Atlanta would get from us.

Here's a few trades I could see that could work for both teams.

Bos sends: Green, Sully, pick or Melo(plus filler)
ATL Sends: Josh Smith

Bos sends: Bass, Bradley, Melo or pick(plus filler)
Atl sends: Josh Smith

I would rather do the 2nd trade because we have good depth at the SG spot and we get to keep Jeff Green as the backup SF.


1st trade would leave us a roster of
PG: Rondo    / JET
SG: Bradley  / Lee
SF: PP       / Pietrus? Josh Howard?
PF: Smith    / Bass
 C: KG       / Darko


2nd trade would leave us with a roster of

PG: Rondo   / JET
SG: Lee     / Vet Min
SF: PP      / Green
PF: Smith   / Sully
 C: KG      / Darko

still very deep rosters with only void being a SG or SF off the bench. Josh Howard and Pietrus are still out there...

Offline Who

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2012, 02:11:55 PM »
What about a Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp comparison? Smith is only 5 lbs lighter and 1 inch smaller then Kemp was in his prime.

More like Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin

Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2012, 02:14:53 PM »
What about a Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp comparison? Smith is only 5 lbs lighter and 1 inch smaller then Kemp was in his prime.

More like Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin

They seemed to do okay though, right?

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Offline Who

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2012, 02:20:06 PM »
I doubt Atlanta would be all that interested in Avery Bradley.

They already have Jeff Teague there as well as Devin Harris and Lou Williams at the point guard / combo guard positions. Plus, they just drafted John Jenkins, another 6-4 guard. That backcourt looks pretty packed already. Lou Williams on a multi-year deal. Jenkins beginning a rookie scale contract and Jeff Teague their PG of the future.

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I also think Avery Bradley really benefits from having a creator like Rondo to play off of. His splits with Rondo on and off the court show a large disparity. Atlanta has no offensive weapon for Bradley to play off of. Not a creative PG or a playmaking wing like Joe Johnson.

Unless Avery shows more shot-creation abilities, I think he'll be seen more as a finishing piece to a team than a piece you build around .... which is what Atlanta will be looking for post Josh Smith.

Offline Who

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2012, 02:46:18 PM »
Josh Smith is 6-8 to 6-9 and weighs 225 to 230lbs.

He is an undersized power forward (undersized quick four).

Shawn Kemp was 6'10" and 230. He was pretty good in Seattle. The league is smaller then it was in the 90s and early 2000s. Smith can play the 4 based on his size. His shot selection and offensive skill set are what make people feel he is "positionless" at neither being a 3 or a 4.

Playing with Rondo and passers like KG and Pierce can improve that efficiency.

Josh Smith has a position. He is combo forward who is best off as an undersized quick four but can also play some small forward as a power three. A PF/SF. Shawn Kemp was a different type of weapon; an undersized finesse based center / power based power forward. A C/PF. Kemp could play either position dependent on what style of play his team wanted to utilize (speed or power). 

Shawn Kemp is more comparable (in terms of position) to an Amare Stoudemire (or Hakeem Olajuwon) type of player whilst Josh Smith is more comparable to an Andrei Kirilenko (or Shawn Marion comparison above) type of player.

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Shawn Kemp was also 240-245lbs during his best years in Seattle. The 230lbs was from early in his career when he first came into the league.

Josh Smith also came in at a lower weight (220lbs) and then beefed up. He was up to around 250lbs two seasons ago and was at 240lbs prior to that ... but then dropped the weight because it wasn't good weight. He (correctly) felt it was holding his game back. He got back down to 225lbs last season and had the best year of his career (with significantly room for more improvement). Allows him more positional versatility and better enables him to out-quick his opponent at PF.

Besides a strength advantage, Kemp was also taller and significantly longer. Josh Smith's reach is about average for a PF whilst Kemp's was more in line with a center. Just a bigger body than Smith has.

Offline celticmania

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2012, 02:53:45 PM »
My Trade Idea:

Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith

Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick

Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash

Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.

Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen

That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.

 

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