Author Topic: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..  (Read 14744 times)

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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2012, 03:04:07 PM »

Offline Chris

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My Trade Idea:

Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith

Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick

Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash

Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.

Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen

That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.

I am pretty sure that trade would not work, because it would put the C's over the luxury tax threshold, even if Smith waives his 15% trade kicker.

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2012, 03:12:19 PM »

Offline celticmania

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My Trade Idea:

Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith

Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick

Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash

Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.

Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen

That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.

I am pretty sure that trade would not work, because it would put the C's over the luxury tax threshold, even if Smith waives his 15% trade kicker.

Thanks for the feed-back. I never really understood the tax threshold and how it works.

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2012, 03:16:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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My Trade Idea:

Celtics Recieve:
Josh Smith

Hawks Recieve:
Avery Bradley
Fab Melo
Brandon Bass
Celtics 1st pick
Celtics 2nd pick
other team 2nd pick

Other team Receives:
Jason Collins
Cash

Then, sign Eddie House and Chris Andersen.

Rajon Rondo/Jason Terry/Eddie House
Courney Lee/Jason Terry/Dionte Xmas
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/Kris Joseph
Josh Smith/Jared Sullinger/Chris Wilcox
Kevin Garnett/Darko Milicic/Chris Andersen

That would be the best or 2nd best team in the league. We would be scary good defensively, in transition, and we still have a really good bench. Josh Smith would deffinately improve our team.

I am pretty sure that trade would not work, because it would put the C's over the luxury tax threshold, even if Smith waives his 15% trade kicker.
well it would work, just not sure Boston would do it.
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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2012, 03:20:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How about this 3 team trade

Boston - Josh Smith
Atlanta - Anderson Varejao, Fab Melo, Jason Collins
Cleveland - Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2012, 03:24:40 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce.  If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.

I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.

I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.

Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?

I can understand the appeal of Smith.  He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike

Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2012, 03:26:48 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce.  If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.

I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.

I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.

Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?

I can understand the appeal of Smith.  He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike

Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
Getting Josh Smith ties up considerably more resources than grabbing Darko Milicic off the waiver wire. The Paul Pierce comparison is a fair one -- except that Pierce was immensely more talented at 27 than Josh Smith.
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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2012, 03:27:31 PM »

Offline celticmania

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How about this 3 team trade

Boston - Josh Smith
Atlanta - Anderson Varejao, Fab Melo, Jason Collins
Cleveland - Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley

Don't know if it works but seems like a good trade. Picks would need to be involved for Atlanta to agree. Probably like 3 future 1st rounders.

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2012, 03:30:56 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce.  If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.

I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.

I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.

Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?

I can understand the appeal of Smith.  He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike

Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.
Getting Josh Smith ties up considerably more resources than grabbing Darko Milicic off the waiver wire. The Paul Pierce comparison is a fair one -- except that Pierce was immensely more talented at 27 than Josh Smith.

Point taken on Milicic although the argument was not about resources. It was about Josh Smith being a "stupid player" at age 27 and how that in and of itself...is trouble.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2012, 03:46:44 PM »

Offline badshar

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I really wished that we could have had Smith this year.

I am not ready to give up anyone from our team through a trade for three reasons:

1. Just to get salaries to match, we have to give too many people.

2. Past experience has proved that mid-season trades aren't always the best thing for a team that wants to win a championship that year. Players are not able to develop chemistry that quickly. I prefer having Smith from the beginning of the season or earlier on in the season than midway so there is enough time to get him comfortable with the team and the offensive and defensive system.

3. Giving up Green will cripple our bench. Sure Terry is there for instant offense and the spark off the bench, but let's be real. Terry and Green both together coming off the bench and playing against the other team's bench is very important and very big advantage in our favor. I don't want to give up that. Of course, unless Smith is willing to come off the bench, which he most likely won't, our bench power will severely go down.

I would rather wait for his contract to end by the end of this year, and if his strong desire to become a Celtic is still alive, then he would understand our situation maybe take a little bit of a pay-cut. I am confident that Pierce would be willing to take a pay-cut too if it means we get a huge talent in Josh Smith.

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2012, 03:48:48 PM »

Offline Chris

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How about this 3 team trade

Boston - Josh Smith
Atlanta - Anderson Varejao, Fab Melo, Jason Collins
Cleveland - Brandon Bass, Avery Bradley

Just like the other one, this does not work financially.

Based on my calculations (using Shamsports...and yes, I removed Dooling from the calculation), if they make this trade for Smith, and Smith waives his 15% trade kicker, they would still be at $74,523,731 (and the threshold is at $74,307,000 I believe)...and that is only with 12 men on the roster (they would have 3 spots filled with rookie minimum players).  So, they would have to sign one more player to reach the roster minimum, which would put them well over the threshold.
 
Paul Pierce   $16,790,345
Kevin Garnett   $11,566,265
Rajon Rondo   $11,000,000
Jeff Green   $8,385,000
Courtney Lee   $5,000,000
Jason Terry   $5,000,000
Jared Sullinger   $1,306,920
Chris Wilcox   $854,389
Dionte Christmas   $473,604
Kris Joseph   $473,604
Jamar Smith   $473,604
Josh Smith   $13,200,000
Rookie Minimum   $473,604
   $74,997,335


Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2012, 04:43:41 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce.  If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.

I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.

I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.

Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?

I can understand the appeal of Smith.  He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike

Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.

1.  Bringing in Darko to compete for the back-up center spot is completely different than bringing in Josh Smith to be the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the team AND one of the cornerstone's of the team's next 4 or 5 seasons.

2.  Paul Pierce was a better player and much less of an on-court knucklehead than Smith at 27.

3.  If Ainge can sign Smith as a FA after the season, I'm all for it because that's a good cost-benefit bet.  Giving up a couple of playoff caliber rotation players and one or two 1st rounders for Smith, which is what it would likely take, is something else.  That's a lot to give away for stupid.

Mike

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2012, 05:17:18 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Currently, my keepers are Rondo, Bradley, Green, Melo, KG, and Pierce.  If some combination of the other guys on the roster could get us Josh Smith, I'd at least be willing to listen.

I agree, except I would leave Melo out of that list if it would help to get Smith.

I know Smith has a bad shot selection, but I don't see why he can't improve his shot selection.

Because he's been in the league 8 years and it's no better now than when he started?

I can understand the appeal of Smith.  He's a great talent and young enough to pair with Rondo for another 5+ years, but I think folks are underestimating the trouble that comes with a guy who's going to turn 27 and still plays stupid on the court.
Mike

Right. Guys like Darko Milicic...I mean Paul Pierce...I mean Josh Smith who play stupid at age 27 are more trouble than they're worth.

1.  Bringing in Darko to compete for the back-up center spot is completely different than bringing in Josh Smith to be the 2nd or 3rd most important player on the team AND one of the cornerstone's of the team's next 4 or 5 seasons.

2.  Paul Pierce was a better player and much less of an on-court knucklehead than Smith at 27.

3.  If Ainge can sign Smith as a FA after the season, I'm all for it because that's a good cost-benefit bet.  Giving up a couple of playoff caliber rotation players and one or two 1st rounders for Smith, which is what it would likely take, is something else.  That's a lot to give away for stupid.

Mike

I don't get the point. You said Josh was too much trouble for stupid at age 27. The Boston Celtics have played throughout the years with stupid at 27. Darko which people love, Paul, Antoine, Tony Allen. All with varying degrees of importance. And yes Paul was less of an on-court knucklehead(whatever that means). Paul was a knucklehead OFF the court instead. Way better.

On your 3rd point I actually kinda agree. It's just really hard trying to make the talent, and the money line up, especially with us up against the hard cap. And it might be simpler to just wait until next year to do it. And even then it will be hard to make a deal that works then. I just don't prescribe to the "oh he's 27 and stupid argument". He takes a few bad jumpers in an isolation offense with no capable pg and ballhogging 2guards. Not to say it's all them but it's funny to me that his shot selection appears to be the only issue people come up with for him. There is too much talent there to fear shot selection.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2012, 05:23:58 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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I don't like the guy much. Not a fan.
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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2012, 05:29:25 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I have seen a lot of knucklehead comments. Smith hasn't really had any issues off the court. His shot selection has been questioned, but he has never played for a vocal coach with the swag that Doc has and respect he commands. He has never played with a playmaking PG like Rondo and he has never been in a locker room with leaders like KG and Pierce. I think a change of scenery from Atlanta to Boston would do wonders for his efficiency and his overall game.


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Re: Josh Smith would not significantly upgrade our team..
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2012, 04:52:30 AM »

Offline nostar

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I suddenly realized why I'm not on the Josh Smith bandwagon.

I have watched this guy check out of games. Important games. Games that his team was still competing in. Some call goes against him or his team and he just hangs his head. It's one of the reasons I think Demarcus Cousins and John Wall aren't shoe-ins for NBA success and why I think Dwight Howard has had limited success in his runs through the playoffs. These guys have talent, no doubt, but they need the will to fight through adversity. I think it's what held Lebron back for so long too.

I don't think Smith has that trait and I think once KG retires we're going to have a pretty big hole to fill. If Smith can learn how to keep his head in the games that matter I'll reverse my position but until then he's just a fringe all-star on an 8th seed at best.