Author Topic: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?  (Read 9834 times)

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Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 11:28:58 AM »

Offline saltlover

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But who's available?  The names I could find are:

Derek Fisher
Gilbert Arenas
Carlos Arroyo
Earl Boykins
Mike Bibby

Would any of those guys make a difference at all?  I get that depth is a concern, and I wanted DA to draft a PG for that reason, but Derek Fisher is the best of that bunch, and he was terrible last year.

If Rondo goes down for an extended period of time, it doesn't matter who the backup point is, since the team's success is so dependent on Rondo.  So you're looking for a contingency plan for Terry going down while AB is still out, or to just play point and forget about Terry.  The latter option makes no sense, because that would mean that Terry, Lee, and AB are all fighting for minutes at only a single position.  So we're worried about the first 2-3 months of the season, or about two injuries to the same position later in the season.

Accordingly, I think that the Celtics just need to sit tight, and find a PG if the need arises.  There's no one out there worth getting today that will offer any improvement to the situation.  Hopefully we can get through the season without a major Rondo injury (regardless of who the backup is) or without multiple injuries to JET and AB at the same time.  For short stretches, the team has enough versatility to make things work as needed.  A long-term solution can only be found via trade, and they should hold off on that trade until it's truly necessary.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 12:59:08 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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I think Arroyo would be our best option. He's played with the team and he dominated the Turkish league last year. There is really nothing out there and this would strictly be for depth. The guy won't get time when we're fully healthy and didn't play that badly when he got time here in 2011.

Fisher is the best one of them all but I don't really want a long-time Laker on the team that I love.
Bibby is beyond awful on defense at this point. He brings three point shooting and nothing.
Boykins is also a defensive liability and what he brought to the table in his prime he can't do anymore.
(By the way, the three of those guys are old as frick.)
Arenas is done even if he is 30. Plain and simple.
Ditto for Allen Iverson, and people, he's 37, hasn't played NBA basketball since 2010, wouldn't like playing only spot minutes, and is not attracting anyone, not even outside the league. So please, STOP. MENTIONING. HIM.

Now Arroyo's not ideal, but he's 33, which isn't terribly old, and he has always been a back-up point guard. I'd take a flier on him again.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 02:35:00 PM »

Offline gar

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Pretty obvious. So much for Doc's foresight. You loose Moore and Dooling for Christmas and Smith. Not even close. Yes Christmas is a nice versatile player, but what they continue to see in Smith is beyond me.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 03:18:34 PM »

Offline saltlover

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The other thing I'd point out is that Doc may be using the media for motivational tools.  I know JET is a veteran and all, but it could be as simple as a subtle request for Terry to focus a little more on running the offense when he's out there.

If Doc really wanted a PG replacement after Dooling retired, they'd have signed one instead of Milicic, or brought one into camp.  They didn't, so I think they're either content enough with the situation, or calling up Orlando to try to get E'Twaun back.  There hasn't been that much to choose from all offseason.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 03:24:41 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Pretty obvious. So much for Doc's foresight. You loose Moore and Dooling for Christmas and Smith. Not even close. Yes Christmas is a nice versatile player, but what they continue to see in Smith is beyond me.
You mean he should have planned for one of his players abruptly and randomly retiring?
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Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2012, 06:29:11 PM »

Offline Jon

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Dooling would have been excellent insurance capable of stepping in when someone was in foul trouble or if someone got hurt.  But let's not pretend for a second like he was ever going to be the backup PG here. 

We already don't have enough minutes to give Terry, Bradley, and Lee even with Terry and/or Bradley getting minutes at the PG spot.  Letting Dooling or anyone backup Rondo would mean that Terry, Bradley, and Lee would be stuck splitting the 48 mpg available at the 2 spot, and that's simply not going to happen. 

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2012, 09:32:21 PM »

Online Eddie20

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Are we so certain that Dooling won't return? I know he said things to the contrary, but so did Sheed. However, if he does stay true to his word Barbosa is a name that hasn't been mentioned. I realize he isn't a true 1, but he and Terry could share ball handling duties on the second unit. Plus, his uptempo fastbreak style seems like a perfect fit to how Doc wants to play. And instead of adding one player (Terry) that can breakdown the D and create his own shot, we add two. I say give him the remaining exception and call it a day.


Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2012, 01:15:14 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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XMAS and Smith frankly looked lost to me,  over whelmed , they were out classed by the Euro guys even.  That won't cut it in the NBA talent pool.

I think Doc & Danny needs to keep an eye open for a REAL POINT guard .

I agree absolutely.  From what I've seen XMAS is an absolute non-option at the PG spot. 

Jamar Smith looks TERRIBLE out there.  Not only does he look uncomfortalbe handling the ball and running the offense, but he never seems to want to do anything but jack up bad shots early in the shot clock.

To be honest I wasn't too impressed by any of the young guys outside of Melo and Sullinger. 

Ironically Joseph was probably the one I liked best simply because he didn't do anything, and not doing anything is better than doing terrible things. 

In short I think we have more than enough youth on our roster right now.  I'd I would much rather ditch all of those unproven young guys, pick up one proven veteran PG with solid IQ, and leave any other roster spots free for later.

People are giving Dooling a hard time about how he played the point.  He's not a pure point guard, but he did a pretty reasonable job considering he's a combo-guard and was injured a couple of times throughout the season.

He was reasonably quick, handled the ball well enough, was a bearable passer and played solid defense.  He was never a fantastic playmaker, but combo-guards rarely are.

He was about 10,000x better at the role than any rookie currently on our roster, and even if he was average as a PG at least he was proven and consistent...you knew what you were going to get.

Lee and Bradley are no better at PG than Dooling was and I don't know if Terry is really much better either - all are predominantly SG's who can bring the ball up.

Carlos Arroyo is a HELL NO.  We had him for a little while if you guys remember, and he was utterly useless.  He might be a superstar in international leagues, but his game doesn't seem to translate at all to the NBA because he was garbage when he came here. 

Out of the guys in that list I'd definately take Derek Fisher.  He may not be ideal but he's experienced and he spent years playing as the starting PG on playoff teams - yes I know this was in the Triangle offense (where the PG handles the ball less) but fact remains he held down the position, he's tough mentally, he plays hard, and come playoff time he's one of the most clutch shooters of the last two decades.  For a 1 year vet min contract we could do a LOT worse.

For example we could sign any of the young guys we're working out right now...that would be worse.

If (by mid season) a better PG becomes available, let him go...or sign someone to the spare roster spot, and let Fisher ride the bench until his contract expires at the end of the season.

As I said it sure as hell isn't ideal, but it will do the job and has practically zero risk. The 'ideal' option right now does not exist.

Also Barbosa is not an option because:
1. He probably wouldn't sign for vet min
2. He's a shot jacker
3. As a playmaker he'd make Dooling look like John Stockton


Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2012, 02:05:18 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Are we so certain that Dooling won't return? I know he said things to the contrary, but so did Sheed. However, if he does stay true to his word Barbosa is a name that hasn't been mentioned. I realize he isn't a true 1, but he and Terry could share ball handling duties on the second unit. Plus, his uptempo fastbreak style seems like a perfect fit to how Doc wants to play. And instead of adding one player (Terry) that can breakdown the D and create his own shot, we add two. I say give him the remaining exception and call it a day.

Respectfully, I don't think Barbosa makes much sense.  We have more than enough combo options (JET/Lee/Bradley), as well as Pierce.  Barbosa is just a lesser option of what we already have.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2012, 08:39:31 AM »

Offline Galeto

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Dooling was horrible for most of the regular season then turned into a key contributor in the playoffs with his defense and shooting.  He was never a passing point guard however.  The Celtics have enough guys who can run a team after Rondo.  Pierce didn't just do it for the first time in Rondo's absence last year.  He controlled more of the offense than Rondo did in the championship season. He's more than capable.  Terry is very offensively aggressive but he has extensive experience playing point guard.  Garnett is one of the best passing big men of all-time.  I don't get this need for a  backup point need.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2012, 09:02:36 AM »

Offline Chris

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Dooling was horrible for most of the regular season then turned into a key contributor in the playoffs with his defense and shooting.  He was never a passing point guard however.  The Celtics have enough guys who can run a team after Rondo.  Pierce didn't just do it for the first time in Rondo's absence last year.  He controlled more of the offense than Rondo did in the championship season. He's more than capable.  Terry is very offensively aggressive but he has extensive experience playing point guard.  Garnett is one of the best passing big men of all-time.  I don't get this need for a  backup point need.

I am not that concerned with who "runs the point".  This team has enough quality passers and guys who can create shots, that they could get by (as well as any team could without their best player) for short stretches.  \

My problem is that they currently have only 2 guys who can defend the PG spot until Bradley returns...at least anyone who I believe they will trust enough to put on the floor.  So, that puts them in a bit of a delicate position if Rondo or Terry get hurt in the first couple months.

In the grand scheme of things, it is a very minor issue.  But the beauty of the team this year, is that is the kind of issue we get to worry about (at least at this point).

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2012, 10:31:40 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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Dooling was horrible for most of the regular season then turned into a key contributor in the playoffs with his defense and shooting.  He was never a passing point guard however.  The Celtics have enough guys who can run a team after Rondo.  Pierce didn't just do it for the first time in Rondo's absence last year.  He controlled more of the offense than Rondo did in the championship season. He's more than capable.  Terry is very offensively aggressive but he has extensive experience playing point guard.  Garnett is one of the best passing big men of all-time.  I don't get this need for a  backup point need.

I am not that concerned with who "runs the point".  This team has enough quality passers and guys who can create shots, that they could get by (as well as any team could without their best player) for short stretches.  \

My problem is that they currently have only 2 guys who can defend the PG spot until Bradley returns...at least anyone who I believe they will trust enough to put on the floor.  So, that puts them in a bit of a delicate position if Rondo or Terry get hurt in the first couple months.

In the grand scheme of things, it is a very minor issue.  But the beauty of the team this year, is that is the kind of issue we get to worry about (at least at this point).
This may be a reason why they're giving Smith a nice, long look hoping that he may be better suited to defending PGs than Christmas.
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Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2012, 10:36:10 AM »

Offline Chris

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Dooling was horrible for most of the regular season then turned into a key contributor in the playoffs with his defense and shooting.  He was never a passing point guard however.  The Celtics have enough guys who can run a team after Rondo.  Pierce didn't just do it for the first time in Rondo's absence last year.  He controlled more of the offense than Rondo did in the championship season. He's more than capable.  Terry is very offensively aggressive but he has extensive experience playing point guard.  Garnett is one of the best passing big men of all-time.  I don't get this need for a  backup point need.

I am not that concerned with who "runs the point".  This team has enough quality passers and guys who can create shots, that they could get by (as well as any team could without their best player) for short stretches.  \

My problem is that they currently have only 2 guys who can defend the PG spot until Bradley returns...at least anyone who I believe they will trust enough to put on the floor.  So, that puts them in a bit of a delicate position if Rondo or Terry get hurt in the first couple months.

In the grand scheme of things, it is a very minor issue.  But the beauty of the team this year, is that is the kind of issue we get to worry about (at least at this point).
This may be a reason why they're giving Smith a nice, long look hoping that he may be better suited to defending PGs than Christmas.

I think you are exactly right.  I think they see him as a guy who can be a quality defender and spot shooter.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he does it in practice.  The problem is, he looks like a deer in headlights when he steps on the court, and rushes everything.

In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Bradley his first season offensively (but he is nowhere near the defender).  It took Bradley a season and a half to calm down.  I am not sure they are going to wait that long for Smith.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2012, 10:51:39 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I think it'd be a mistake to evaluate Christmas on how he guards the PG position.  The value I see in Christmas over other PG candidates is his size, a size that would allow him to guard the bigger guards, while our undersized PG's like Terry, Bradley, and Rondo can focus on the smaller ones (though Bradley can sure cover bigger guys than him).

So for Christmas' sake, I hope Doc isn't making the mistake on solely evaluating Christmas for his defensive capabilities at the PG position. I don't envision him in that role in the first place.

Re: Doc wants backup point. Where is Dooling?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2012, 10:57:13 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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This is something new - the Cs looking for a backup PG. 

 

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