Author Topic: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way  (Read 11177 times)

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Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2012, 01:20:36 PM »

Offline u2larkin04

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i loved the way Bass played during the regular season, but I cannot get the pictures outta my head of him taking those stupid shots during the playoffs.. he regained the "No Pass Bass" nickname that he earned on his previous teams.
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Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2012, 01:44:07 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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 guess we may find out against the Knicks if Sully can actually play.

 

 sure Doc and Danny are curious how he will react. ???

Any rate we know what we got with Bass.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2012, 02:10:47 PM »

Offline erisred

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guess we may find out against the Knicks if Sully can actually play.
It's still pre-season. Yeah, it'll be another data point, but all we've seen of Sullinger is Summer League and two games against Euro-league teams. I want to see what he can do it against NBA players in real NBA games...ie. the regular season.

I've been, and still am, a Sullinger doubter. Not a hater, but I have had my doubts about him since before the draft. I always figured he would be able to rebound and that's something the C's need, but *just* rebounding isn't good enough, and that's where my questions start. It appears that he has poor lateral quickness and doesn't have exceptionally long arms or a lot of lift to make up for his lack of ideal height. Can he handle NBA PF's who are quicker and/or longer than he is? Will he be able to keep them from shooting over him, driving past him? Is he going to be able to make the defensive rotations...I think he'll learn them, but can he do them quickly enough to stop pick and rolls, for example? Offensively, will he be able to get his post shots off without getting them batted back into his face? Can he hit a 12-15 foot jump shot consistently?

To me, those questions remained after Summer League. He did rebound well, but he was also bothered by longer/quicker big men and he did look a bit slow on rotations. But that was Summer League where big men don't thrive (not when all the little men are taking shots every chance they get). The two games against Euro-league teams don't mean a lot.

Now, otoh, if he continues to play at the level he showed in the first two games through the rest of pre-season and the first month of the season I'll have to change my mind. I hope he does and if he does, I won't mind eating crow one little bit.

However, for now...no Bass isn't in the way.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2012, 02:21:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?

How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center

How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?

And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.

Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2012, 02:44:49 PM »

Offline cman88

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Like I said earlier, Sullinger isnt dominating these bigs and thats why he's getting praise.

its that he already looks to be in-sync with the team and knows where to be to grab rebounds and get easy baskets...he takes what the game gives him.

one play that stood out was a play where KG got the ball and sullinger made a cut and got an easy dunk on the pass from garnett...those are plays you usually dont see  from rookies


thats not to take anything away from Bass...its not a bad problem to have, to have 2 solid bigs.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2012, 03:05:49 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?

How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center

How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?

And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.

Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.

This part kills me, what you say before and after is mostly my thoughts, but you lose me there.

So, over Darko's 9 seasons in the league he has PROVEN to at least be a very good backup... no matter how bad he is when thinking about him being a #2 pick! You cannot tell me Darko's numbers aren't just right for the role of backup center! As bad as people say he is, he is much better than anything we have had as backup in like forever! Now, he in no way a starter for this team b/c KG is an elite center in today's NBA, but for a backup (If his head is right. Actually he had those numbers with a bad mentality), he is ideal! If Doc decided to put KG back as a PF (I wouldn't want it)... Darko is no worse than Perkins except that he knew the system and had a better mind but numbers don't suggest he is better than Darko... we haven't had Darko and KG to know if it can work as well as Perk and KG, and it's not like Perk was all that when he first played with KG either!

Darko isn't a great player but I just can't see why his numbers don't suggest (to some people) that he is just right for backup or first big off the bench, b/c I don't count Green as a big... no one is even asking him to be JO, even though that's not a high bar to meet!
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Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2012, 03:13:46 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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i loved the way Bass played during the regular season, but I cannot get the pictures outta my head of him taking those stupid shots during the playoffs.. he regained the "No Pass Bass" nickname that he earned on his previous teams.
Stupid shots, or just the same shots as the regular season but they just didn't fall?

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2012, 03:27:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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How about we get to see Sullinger against actual NBA starting caliber players before anointing him the second coming of Elton Brand or Charles Barkley?

How about everyone realize Doc says KG is a center and KG proved he is a top notch center at that and come to the conclusion KG will be the starting center and playing center

How about we discuss what Darko really is and that is an end of the rotation big? Enough with the talk of starting him or having him be the first big off the bench?

And lastly, how about people start appreciating the job Brandon Bass did last year and what he means to this team? Do you want Big Baby back? How about Mikki Moore or Ryan Hollins? Brandon Bass' defense got much improved in this system last year and his toughness and good consistent shooting is exactly what this team needed. Yes, this team needs some post players and elite rebounders but there is still a significant role left on this team for a player of Brandon Bass' skill set and age.

Give Bass the starting PF job until someone takes it him him.

This part kills me, what you say before and after is mostly my thoughts, but you lose me there.

So, over Darko's 9 seasons in the league he has PROVEN to at least be a very good backup... no matter how bad he is when thinking about him being a #2 pick! You cannot tell me Darko's numbers aren't just right for the role of backup center! As bad as people say he is, he is much better than anything we have had as backup in like forever! Now, he in no way a starter for this team b/c KG is an elite center in today's NBA, but for a backup (If his head is right. Actually he had those numbers with a bad mentality), he is ideal! If Doc decided to put KG back as a PF (I wouldn't want it)... Darko is no worse than Perkins except that he knew the system and had a better mind but numbers don't suggest he is better than Darko... we haven't had Darko and KG to know if it can work as well as Perk and KG, and it's not like Perk was all that when he first played with KG either!

Darko isn't a great player but I just can't see why his numbers don't suggest (to some people) that he is just right for backup or first big off the bench, b/c I don't count Green as a big... no one is even asking him to be JO, even though that's not a high bar to meet!
Because his numbers over inflate his abilities. His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison. And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par. Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2012, 03:31:07 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Until Jared shows some offensive ability beyond point blank looks at the basket Bass has nothing to fear.

Jared still looks slow and short to me.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2012, 03:40:52 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.

I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact. 

Quote
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.

I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.

Quote
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.

Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.

Quote
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.

I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact. 

Quote
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.

I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.

Quote
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.

Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.

Quote
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2012, 03:55:55 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.

I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact. 

Quote
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.

I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.

Quote
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.

Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.

Quote
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D

Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2012, 04:04:16 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.

I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact. 

Quote
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.

I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.

Quote
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.

Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.

Quote
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D

Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
I think there is definitely some conservative optimism. Being a part of a winning program has changed the outlooks and on court results of many an NBA player. I hope he can be more than what I think he is. I just am not going to be surprised if he is a huge disappointment either.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2012, 04:07:21 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I'm sure I will be lambasted by some, but I am on record saying I didn't want to resign bass.  Looking at our front court situation, I think bass should be behind guys like sully and green and Wilcox.  Darko and Collins are true centers so they don't overlap too much with bass.

We are paying bass to be at least a rotation guy, and it looks like he will start, but I kinda wish he wasn't around because have better options.
Sullinger got some wide open dunks against European defenses. Quick, stop the presses, ship Brandon Bass out of town!

Please...

Agreed. Everybody slow down. "No pass Bass!" cut that stuff out, the guy is playing with a pass first PG and is a great mid range shooter. Doc and Rondo want him shooting so he's shooting.

Sullinger is good and will get better, but he's behind Bass right now.

Re: Hopefully bass doesn't get in the way
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Because his numbers over inflate his abilities.

I think this is true, because his numbers (blocks, boards) bely a proficiency he hasn't show in extended stretches, and the fact that he's historically played most of his 'big minute' seasons at the 5 for terrible teams only exacerbates the fact. 

Quote
His offense is putrid. I mean, he makes Perk look like a solid offense threat by comparison.

I disagree with the Perkins comparison, but maybe that was just hyperbole. Milicic is skilled as an offensive player, at least more skilled than Perkins, but his problems I think arise more from being on teams that don't get him to 'buy in' offensively, and his tendency to check out. He's got better skills than he's often showed.

Quote
And his post man defense is good but his team defense and pick and roll defense has always been below par.

Yes. But it should be noted that he's lately been on some pretty terrible NBA defensive teams, and teams in rebuilding mode/coaching flux. NYK, Minny..its not like its an ideal situation for a mentally broken underachieving center to suddenly 'find' himself.

Quote
Also, he has been known to mentally check out of long periods of the season and his effort is not there on a consistent basis.

This is pretty spot on, and the biggest worry i have about him in terms of him actually being a difference maker for us. If this hurdle can't be addressed, there isn't much room for optimism.
So IPfactchecker.org rates mr. agneta's comments as "mostly true". ;) :D ;D

Pretty much. Mostly the difference we have is whether there is room for 'some conservative optimism' and 'no optimism' about him being a legitimate back-up 5 capable of playing ~20 good minutes.
I think there is definitely some conservative optimism. Being a part of a winning program has changed the outlooks and on court results of many an NBA player. I hope he can be more than what I think he is. I just am not going to be surprised if he is a huge disappointment either.

Well then I guess I completely agree then. Darko Milicic is like a kid who got a 1500 on his SAT's but flunked out of Brown, and then got a 3.5 at a small state school for a year before getting back into partying too much. You know he's got the raw ability to succeed, and you look at that 3.5 and think, 'Yeah, he can put it together if he just knuckles down and focuses'.

That season in Orlando, that's what we're praying for. That's the ceiling. 23.5 mpg, 18.4 DReb%, 1.8 blocks, stout man defense, energetic team defense, with ample rim defense. He shot terribly, 45.4% TS, and we're not likely looking at a guy who will get 8.0 ppg on 60+ TS%, but there is some hope playing with a full season with Rondo helping him get clear looks at the hoop might help him improve his historically terrible shooting.

Of course, he had a lot of time with Rubio last season, and that was about as helpful as a third..well it wasn't really that helpful. 

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner