Author Topic: what i saw in today's game  (Read 7922 times)

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Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 08:59:34 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Terry was better than I thought.  It seems as though he can play that way consistently and will fit in great.

Lee was worse than I thought.  Hope it was just a bad game.  I suspect it was.  He moved fine, just didn't hit the shots.

Green surprised and can probably continue to give us what he showed today.  Hopefully he can keep building on that.

Fab looked very good actually but was thinking too much.  He is just not ready for the NBA quite yet; a lot to learn.

Rondo looked much better shooting, could he finally have learned to shoot?

The rest will come.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 09:07:22 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Haven't heard anything about Bass ,  he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks

I have to agree. 

Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.

Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox.  It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.

This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger.  Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.

A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound.  The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.

At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:

C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry

What team in the league can compete with that second unit?  You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers. 

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 09:12:58 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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The Cs won't win a championship with Bass as a starter.  he's a small, jump shooting PF who doesn't rebound or defend the rim well.  Sully needs to step up and become a man right away. 

Sullinger won't be a great rim defender, but he can at least give the team some paint presence at the offensive end, which will allow KG  to take his jumper with someone under the basket to clean up any misses.

Despite the team's success in the playoffs past year, KG and Bass together are too flawed.  They're both mid-range shooters who don't have inside games.  The Cs need Sully to emerge as a first team all rookie team guy, and also need one of their 7 footers to step up and play real minutes. 

The Cs are going to have plenty of firepower.  They need inside muscle, defensive paint protectors, and defensive rebounders. 

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2012, 09:38:41 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Haven't heard anything about Bass ,  he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks

I have to agree. 

Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.

Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox.  It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.

This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger.  Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.

A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound.  The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.

At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:

C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry

What team in the league can compete with that second unit?  You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.

That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2012, 09:46:29 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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move Pierce to SG.  Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me.  A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2012, 09:52:26 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Let's not overreact to ONE pre-season game. Does anyone remember pre-season 2008 when people (including me) were clamoring for Darius Miles to make the team instead of Scal after Miles had an impressive output in his first pre-season game as a Celtic? Yeah what happened? He sucked throughout the rest of the pre-season! Let's not jump to conclusions right away.

I loved what I saw from Green and Sullinger today and I was satisfied with Darko and JET. Lee was disappointing, but again, this was one pre-season game. Let's not jump to the, "Sully should start over Bass!" and "Green's going to make the leap!" conclusions just yet.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2012, 10:41:37 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Haven't heard anything about Bass ,  he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks

I have to agree. 

Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.

Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox.  It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.

This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger.  Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.

A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound.  The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.

At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:

C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry

What team in the league can compete with that second unit?  You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.

That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.

Looks like you're right on that one, I must be imagining things!!

I was sure that we had KG+Wilcox player together for a while, but that must have been when Wilcox was coming off the bench.

Regardless of the fact, I still don't see Bass as a definitive starting calibre PF. 

He's borderline.

For a bad team (or maybe even a borderline playoff team) he is worthy of a starting spot, but for a good playoff team he's really just a strong rotation bench player.

He's just not good enough a rebounder, defender, passer or inside scorer to qualify as a starting PF on a contending team, and the fact that he's WAY undersized just emphasises those weaknesses even further.

He's basically saved by his muscle, athleticism, work ethic and his mid-range jumper.

Sullinger on the other hand only really has two weakenesses, and they are his athleticism and his defense.  In every other area of the game he looks to be very good, just as advertised.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2012, 11:15:15 PM »

Offline billysan

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Just to point out some team trends from todays game, I think the biggest areas that we need to improve are better rebounding, fewer turnovers and learning assignments.

The rebounding will improve some as the preseason moves on. I think the most important thing is having the right combinations of players on the floor as much as possible. The combinations of Sulllinger and KG, Darko and Bass might be good solutions. Jeff Green will grab a few rebounds more than he did tonite as will Paul Pierce.

The turnovers will decrease as people learn our system. All the newcomers are learning Rondo and he is learning them. Practice with spacing, timing and being alert will help execution. Jason Terry was already very much in tune with the starting unit as was Jeff Green.

The defensive assignments and offensive spacing were shaky tonite IMO when the starting unit went out. This is again a matter or players getting used to each other and learning their roles. The two new guys who showed the most promise but still need a lot of work before we put them in the rotation were Sullinger and Darko IMO.

I am sure Doc will spend some time on film with the whole team and illustrate what worked and what didnt. KG and Rondo will show the new guys on the practice floor.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 11:20:37 PM by billysan »
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Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2012, 11:36:26 PM »

Offline mgent

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What I saw was Courtney Lee's ugly jumpshot.  Had me longing for the Dooling flick-from-his-ear shot.
Philly:

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Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2012, 01:54:18 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Haven't heard anything about Bass ,  he needs to play harder IMO this year evry game,, or be traded to the Hawks

I have to agree. 

Bass has a pretty easy job last year earning the starting spot simply because well...we didn't have anybody else.

Many people forget that it was initiallly KG and JO starting, and then when Jo went down it was KG and Wilcox.  It wasn't until Wilcox went down that Bass was moved to the starting lineup, so he was bascally the third string PF and earned that starting spot pretty much by default.

This year not only is Wilcox back, but Bass is going to get some serious pressure from Sullinger.  Sully to me is a much better offensive player and (obviously) rebounder, and with KG alongside him his defensive limitations will be much less noticable.

A starting frontcourt of KG + Sullinger could potentially give you 30 points and 16 rebounds a night - plus both are good passers and are fundamentally sound.  The combined inside-outside game from that combination could also be mighty impressive.

At the same time starting Sullinger (and Bradley when he returns) gives us a devastating bench of:

C - Darko Milicic
PF - Brandon Bass
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Courney Lee
PG - Jason Terry

What team in the league can compete with that second unit?  You have a tough big man to defend the paint, and 4 guys in positions one though four who are bonafide double figure scorers.

That is 100% false. When JO went down, Bass was inserted into the lineup instantly. Wilcox was only in the starting lineup when KG was out.

Looks like you're right on that one, I must be imagining things!!

I was sure that we had KG+Wilcox player together for a while, but that must have been when Wilcox was coming off the bench.

Regardless of the fact, I still don't see Bass as a definitive starting calibre PF. 

He's borderline.

For a bad team (or maybe even a borderline playoff team) he is worthy of a starting spot, but for a good playoff team he's really just a strong rotation bench player.

He's just not good enough a rebounder, defender, passer or inside scorer to qualify as a starting PF on a contending team, and the fact that he's WAY undersized just emphasises those weaknesses even further.

He's basically saved by his muscle, athleticism, work ethic and his mid-range jumper.

Sullinger on the other hand only really has two weakenesses, and they are his athleticism and his defense.  In every other area of the game he looks to be very good, just as advertised.

Just his defense huh? Good thing that's not important or anything. It would be nice if Sully showed he could play D well enough to start but I'm not expecting it.
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Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2012, 02:18:09 AM »

Offline fitzhickey

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move Pierce to SG.  Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me.  A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
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Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2012, 05:37:38 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Did Green and Sully get so many minutes because they were so good? Or was it Doc's decision? Curious because this might mean we're seeing Sully on the floor this year.

Hopefully I get my hands on the game.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2012, 05:41:57 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Just his defense huh? Good thing that's not important or anything. It would be nice if Sully showed he could play D well enough to start but I'm not expecting it.

Well the problem is that Bass himself is not a fantastic defensive player, so it's not like you're going from an elite defensive player down to a below average one - you're going from a barely average defender down to a below average one.

IMHO that drop off isn't as significant and the gain Sullinger provides with his inside scoring and his rebounding (especially offensive rebounding). 

Once Bradley returns (I'm assuming will start) out starting lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Pierce and Garnett is an elite defensive lineup...so we can afford to play a below average defender at PF becuase the rest of that starting lineup is good enough defensively to handle the load. 

On the other hand, our bench (Terry, Lee, Green, Milicic) is overall somewhere between average and just above average defensively.  Putting Bass into that lineup at the PF position would mean that the overall unit is solid (if not exceptional) defensively, and against opposing second units that's all we really need.

Also KG has above average athleticism and mobility for a center, so playing a less athletic big (like Sullinger) alongside him isn't a big problem - if he gets beat KG can slide over and help.

On the bench however, pairing Darko with Sullinger would lead to a front court slower then any pair with an average age of 24 years has any right to be.  Any team that plays a small, athletic front court would destroy us.

Also offensively, Bass and KG are both more or less jump shooters at this point in their careers.  Having both of those guys on the court at once means we have no real inside scoring presence.  Pairing Sullinger and KG gives us an inside-outside attack that will be very tough to defend because Sullinger (in Doc's words) "will destroy smaller fours" while KG will force opposing fives to step out and defend his jumper.  It'll be a difficult combo to defend, especially with Pierce, Bradley and Rondo also out there.

Of the bench Milicic + Bass also gives us a more ballanced lineup.  Bass is very athletic enough to defend the Pick&Roll and is also deadly from midrange, while Darko can protect (and clog up) the paint, hit the boards, and get occasional inside shots and put-backs.

I just think those two lineups are most deadly because they allow us to always have a ballanced attack on the cout.

Wilcox is also big, strong, athletic and skilled enough that he can play either PF or C for either of those two lineups.

While KG is still a elite defensive rebounder, he is a quite mediocre offensive rebouder.  I think having him out there on the court with Sullinger (along with Pierce and Rondo) could give us one of the better rebounding starting lineups in the league.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2012, 06:39:50 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Haven't watched entire game, yet - but I saw a bit of Jeff Green in that 2nd half.

The man did WORK. I even heard one of the announcers make a James Worthy comparison.

I can't wait for Oct 30. The team that MIA faces THEN will be a LOT different from the one they faced in May.

Re: what i saw in today's game
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2012, 07:49:46 AM »

Offline greg_kite

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move Pierce to SG.  Start Jeff Green at SF... trade Bradley, Bass and Sully for a legit big man or Josh Smith... This Roster still seems a little weird to me.  A lot of average pieces who are slightly redundant.
Pierce would get destroyed playing guard, imagine pierce defending beal or Eric Gordon, just doesn't work, he's too slow IMO
But then imagine those guys trying to guard Pierce?  I've seen Pierce do a solid job on D against guys like Kobe and Wade, who like to take smaller guards in the post.  Pierce's best years statistically were at the 2.
And with Green emerging as probably the 4th best player on the team it seems like the only way to get him into the starting lineup.  He's clearly better as a 3 than a 4 and needs to play more than 18 minutes a game if Pierce plays about 30 a game at the 3.

 

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