josh smith flew to LA to practice with the celtics

[nickagneta]

Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer?

Mostly because we won't have any space under the cap to sign him, and if I am not mistaken, next year sign and trades become a thing of the past for teams over so much salary, which the Celtics might be. I think I will have to research that.

If the C's are to get Smith they would have to trade in season this year to do it, most probably.

EDIT: Teams above the luxury threshold will not be able to do sign and trades next year. The C's projected salary based on current contracts for next year is about $71 million for 10 players. Add in two minimum player exceptions to get to the 12 player number and the C's are real close to where the luxury threshold will be so it is possible the C's will not be able to do a sign and trade next year.

[ScoobyDoo]

Agreed re Ferry wanting to get a deal done. But if Smith refuses to sign an extension with whichever team Ferry can get a deal done with, Smith can force his UFA hand.

But as Nickagenta clarified (thanks), we won't have the cap room to sign him as a free agent.

I guess a Bass/ Bradley and Picks deal for Smith would be an option, but it would be real tough to see Bradley go. As much as i like Sully and his perceived potential and also because Smith would play the PF spot, I'd almost rather work a deal of Sully & Bass for Smith.

KG / Milicic / Collins
Josh Smith / Back up
Pierce / Jeff Green
Lee / Bradley
Rondo / Jet

I just think Bradley is an impact player. Maybe that's premature based on his volume of work thus far, but I believe it to be true. 

[perks-a-beast]

i'd do something like Bass and Green for Smith and Farmar. Smith is one of the leagues premiere defensive stoppers and is just entering his prime. Factor in that he wants to play here and his chemistry with Rondo and landing Smith would be a win.

[nickagneta]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

[mctyson]

I think any J Smith move depends on how we do this season.  If for some reason we stay healthy and falter with this squad, I could see Pierce being part of a trade for Smith.  We will have to trade youth - either Bradley or Sully, or possibly both - to facilitate that type of a deal because there is no way Pierce would play for a crummy ATL team - he would just retire.

I can't see ATL biting on Jeff Green unless he has a great year this year, but if he does that we are going to the EC Finals at least (assuming health) - so why would we deal him?  We are not getting Smith for Brandon Bass and Bradley. 

I would prefer not to trade Bradley or Sully for him, and if ATL wanted both I'd hang up the phone.

[ScoobyDoo]

I pretty much agree with everything you just said mctyson. 

I think both Bradley and Sully could become very special players.

Bradley:
With his defense and as an ideal combo guard asset for a very good team. I think he was just starting to scratch the surface last year. I think as his ball handling continues to improve - it took a good leap forward last year - he will be able to get anywhere on the floor he wants with the ball. His defense to me is already game changing.

Sully:
I think he has a very rare set of physical for a much needed low post presence on any NBA team. if he hits his ceiling, I think he could be a 20-10 type guy, especially with his free throw shooting ability.

People say he isn't an athlete - but I haven't seen other "run / jump" athletes running circles around him. He either is a better athlete than advertised or he's really smart, has great foot work and anticipation skills.

I didn't see him getting burned all over the place in summer league.

But - "if" I thought that Smith was my long term answer at PF, I would seriously consider a trade that accomplished two things heading into the summer:

1. Trading a combo of Bradley, Sully and maybe Green for another young chip that would pair very well with Smith and Rondo - either at the off guard, center or small forward position. Would have to be a blue young chipper on his rookie contract that for whatever reason the team was willing to take a 3 for 1 for. And obviously a fairly sizeable expiring contract from that team.

2. The trade allowed me to clear enough cap space to sign Smith as a Free agent.

I don't know if that's possible. But if I make the move for Smith to play with Rondo, I go all in and try to get another blue chipper to land a trio.

     
 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I see a lot of good things about Smith's game, but I strongly disagree with the idea of acquiring him at the expense of a package including something like Bradley, Sully, and a first.

Bradley is perhaps the best on-ball defender in the world. And his offensive game is steadily improving. You don't give up a guy like that. Especially not when he could form a formidable duo with Rondo for the next decade.

Sully, though only a rookie, has the potential, in my opinion, to be a career double-double guy, a real impact player.

To me, Josh Smith doesn't equal the value of these two plus a first-rounder. Yes, he too would form a formidable duo with Rondo, and he too is an impact player, but he's only one guy, and a pretty expensive guy, at that. He also doesn't seem too disciplined offensively, and I'm concerned that he's reached his peak already.

I'd rather keep our young guys on cheap to reasonable deals and watch them develop into the solid to great players I think they'll become.

[saltlover]

Why not just wait for Smith to become an UFA and grab him next summer?

Mostly because we won't have any space under the cap to sign him, and if I am not mistaken, next year sign and trades become a thing of the past for teams over so much salary, which the Celtics might be. I think I will have to research that.

If the C's are to get Smith they would have to trade in season this year to do it, most probably.

EDIT: Teams above the luxury threshold will not be able to do sign and trades next year. The C's projected salary based on current contracts for next year is about $71 million for 10 players. Add in two minimum player exceptions to get to the 12 player number and the C's are real close to where the luxury threshold will be so it is possible the C's will not be able to do a sign and trade next year.

The best time for this trade is an extend-and-trade right before the draft, with a third team who likes either Bass or Green taking on that player.  If Pierce decides he's retiring, then the trade actually becomes pretty easy, because Pierce's 2012-2013 salary can match Smith's just fine, and then his salary for 2013-2014 drops to $5 mil, and thus is not a large or long-term obligation for the Hawks against their cap.  Draft picks/young players can make up the rest of the deal.

(Technically Pierce doesn't have to retire to be traded for JSmoove, but I'm going to hope that he's only traded in such a circumstance, for obvious reasons.)

[ScoobyDoo]

Good points Rocknroll -

I am also perfectly happy to see how Bradley follows up last year's coming out party and also how Sully pans out over the course of a full year in the league.

I also agree with someone else that Sully could have a similar impact as Big baby had during his first year - with a caveat - I think Sully's intelligence and maturity will be separating factors that might allow him to achieve much more impressive numbers than Davis did.

One other thing as well - I think Sully is a much tougher guy than Davis - both physically and mentally. Davis would never throw his weight around the way I thought he would in the paint.

I was particularly impressed with Sully in the summer league when he matched up with Leon Powe. I think he knew Powe's game and he immediately starting pushing, shoving and throwing elbows with Powe. Bad knees or not, Powe is still a tough guy and Sully went right after him.

I think he will have no issues with making his physical presence felt in the lane. He has a little bit of "nasty" to his game, which is great for a big man playing in the paint.

[CelticHooligan3]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..

[Surferdad]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..

It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully.  Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out.  Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.

In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this. 

Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone.  Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.

[rondohondo]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..

It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully.  Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out.  Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.

In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this. 

Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone.  Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.

Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.

I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks

PG:Rondo    Terry      vet min
SG: Bradley Lee        xmas
SF: PP      Joseph     Lee
PF: Smith   Sully      Wilcox
 C:kg       Darko      Collins

[Surferdad]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..

It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully.  Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out.  Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.

In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this. 

Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone.  Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.

Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.

I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks

PG:Rondo    Terry      vet min
SG: Bradley Lee        xmas
SF: PP      Joseph     Lee
PF: Smith   Sully      Wilcox
 C:kg       Darko      Collins

I like your enthusiasm, but of those two, only Lee could play backup SF minutes in the playoffs.  Joseph, while a promising young player is not the answer.  That said, Doc could be creative with both big and smaller lineups and develop a playoff rotation that masks the lack of depth at the 3, after this trade.   It could work.   

[jyyzzoel]

Bass and Bradley for Smith doesnt work salary-wise. Green and Bass does. The C's would need close to $11 million in salary going out in order to trade for Smith.

I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If Bradley has to be involved i'd say no. To me he's as close to untouchable as anyone on the team (beside Rondo and KG). Elite wing defenders don't grow on trees, and you can bet one move Danny regrets has been letting TA walk. When kobe beef calls a former player the best one on one defender in the league i tend to take note..

It's gotta be Bass and Green both salary-wise and to retain future young talent by keeping Bradley and Sully.  Last season, Bass improved a lot but his limitations will make him level out.  Green may also level out, assuming he is back at full capability.

In a sense, Green's large contract facilitates a move like this. 

Smith replaces Bass but there would be a big hole at the backup 3 with Green gone.  Other than that, it's a trade deadline move I would be happy with.

Not so sure about that. Lee can play some SF and I really think Joseph in going to be a solid NBA player. He was the top scorer on a team that was a #1 seed in the tourney (until Fab Melo got suspended) He looks like a good athelte who can p;ay some defense and knows how to score.

I would take that with the Lee,Joseph playing sf and the upgrade at PF with Smith for Bass,Green and picks

PG:Rondo    Terry      vet min
SG: Bradley Lee        xmas
SF: PP      Joseph     Lee
PF: Smith   Sully      Wilcox
 C:kg       Darko      Collins

honestly, it all depends how well jeff green does. jeff green mostly at the 3, in the celtics system, can be close to as good as josh smith. im not saying he's played up to the level of josh smith so far in his career, but he can do it this year.

Additionally, if you were to trade bass and green for smith, i really wouldn't be worried about the 3 spot, because although he plays the 4 in atlanta, he is really a combo guard with strong leanings towards the 4. that is, he can play the 3 if needed, he can guard lebron to put it bluntly.

and just out of curiosity, how about jeff green, brandon bass, and a 1st for josh smith and a 1st?

personally, i think danny would be more inclined to try and wait till draft day and swing a trade of bradley and bass for a top three pick and grab a potential superstar to set up the team after pierce and KG retire.

[GreenEnvy]

I get that Smith is better than Green, but how much? We know what Smith is, a talented defender who can run and finish but has an identity crisis as a jumpshooter.

Green can only get better IMO. Smooth in transition, nice jumper from all over, good post moves against SF's, and good D.

I'd go for Smith if we can do something like Bass/Bradley/Melo/picks/whatever else to make salaries match.

Rather go after DMC if we are gonna make a big move.