Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 53964 times)

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #660 on: January 24, 2013, 02:39:01 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Muslim person kills Americans.  Response = deploy all 4 branches of military and rage an open ended holy war in the Mid East

White person kills Americans.  Response = protect their 2nd amendment right to buy huge magazine clips for their automatic weapons


So much underlying racism in today’s GOP it makes me want to puke.

So you think if White Foreigners were killing american diplomats abroad it wouldnt be an issue?

Murder is murder.  Why the double standard?

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #661 on: January 24, 2013, 02:42:37 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Muslim person kills Americans.  Response = deploy all 4 branches of military and rage an open ended holy war in the Mid East

White person kills Americans.  Response = protect their 2nd amendment right to buy huge magazine clips for their automatic weapons


So much underlying racism in today’s GOP it makes me want to puke.

So you think if White Foreigners were killing american diplomats abroad it wouldnt be an issue?

Murder is murder.  Why the double standard?

Im just pointing at that the double standard isnt based on race as much as it is citizenship. 
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #662 on: January 24, 2013, 02:48:30 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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"And knowing the reason doesn't bring them back now" to me is such an ludicrous defense of avoiding the topic that it does bear some serious criticism. Was the point of these hearings to 'bring them back now'?
No, the point of the hearings is to beat up political opponents on a national stage (fake outrage is optional), if I may draw attention to the elephant in the room.

The topic of criticism is what? The priorities of the State Department? I'm sympathetic to Clinton's position, here. Suppose she picked up the phone. What difference would it have made? Is there some sort of  implication that if it was "just" a spontaneous protest, that it wouldn't be investigated for reals?

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And even I say that's a dodge, and I can spot it by her emotional rebuttal. If she would've said, "We weren't trying to lie, we were trying to make sure we didn't call it a terrorist attack until we absolutely knew for certain", and if you piece together other parts of the testimony, you get that is the line of the administration.
Maybe this makes me old-fashioned, but I appreciate Clinton giving an answer that 1) she obviously felt strongly about, and 2) wasn't an administration talking point. It sort of suggests that it's her real position.

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But the whole, "what does it matter now" angle during a testimony, I really think she flubbed that one.
It probably didn't do her any favors, but ultimately I think that this will be Vince Foster v2.0. Fodder for right-wing conspiracy theorists, probably won't stick to her.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #663 on: January 24, 2013, 03:10:06 PM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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"And knowing the reason doesn't bring them back now" to me is such an ludicrous defense of avoiding the topic that it does bear some serious criticism. Was the point of these hearings to 'bring them back now'?
No, the point of the hearings is to beat up political opponents on a national stage (fake outrage is optional), if I may draw attention to the elephant in the room.

The topic of criticism is what? The priorities of the State Department? I'm sympathetic to Clinton's position, here. Suppose she picked up the phone. What difference would it have made? Is there some sort of  implication that if it was "just" a spontaneous protest, that it wouldn't be investigated for reals?

I do think that many of those on the right are looking to score here politically. There is no denying that.

But I also think having the people with the most information on the topic coming in front of our elected officials and detailing what went wrong, why it went wrong, and what they're currently doing to stop it from happening again is a good thing, and something a healthy government should have. A self-examined bureaucracy is not worth governing and all that.

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And even I say that's a dodge, and I can spot it by her emotional rebuttal. If she would've said, "We weren't trying to lie, we were trying to make sure we didn't call it a terrorist attack until we absolutely knew for certain", and if you piece together other parts of the testimony, you get that is the line of the administration.
Maybe this makes me old-fashioned, but I appreciate Clinton giving an answer that 1) she obviously felt strongly about, and 2) wasn't an administration talking point. It sort of suggests that it's her real position.

One of my resolutions this year is that I'm going to try to be less sarcastic, less cynical, and more optimistic, and more sincere.

But even I'm not really buying the 'four Americans died, I'm really broken up about it' from her anymore than I am from people on the right decrying 'four Americans died, and Clinton should've had to resign because all life is precious and this is not politically motivated at all!!'.

I imagine she was very frustrated, saw it for the politicking that it was, and didn't appreciate being a prop or a punching bag, so she said something a little rash in an attempt to defuse the questioning.

The crux of what she said wasn't that 'what difference does it make', what the point was, 'lets move on, because there is nothing we can do about it now'.

However, the problem with that is that the administration still hasn't covered this stuff with any kind of comprehensive explanation.

What I'd like is for someone, anyone, to explain why they thought it was okay for Rice to keep trotting out that line, what they learned (specifically) that showed them to be wrong, when they learned it, and why they felt comfortable with Rice giving an explanation like she did if so many things were up in the air (alluding to the 'learning things in real time' element of Clinton's testimony).

I'm not angry they made a mistake, but I am a little annoyed them using moral high-horsery to deflect.

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But the whole, "what does it matter now" angle during a testimony, I really think she flubbed that one.
It probably didn't do her any favors, but ultimately I think that this will be Vince Foster v2.0. Fodder for right-wing conspiracy theorists, probably won't stick to her.

We both agree on this. Its a relatively minor point in the grand scheme of things, and isn't going to follow Clinton or define her to anyone who would've been on the fence about voting for her in 4 years.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #664 on: January 25, 2013, 12:25:25 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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At one time, in a galaxy long ago, the republicans were the party of inclusion and race equality, Lincoln was a republican and they didn't just pay lip service to it they went to war against slavery.  Oh how times have changed...

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #665 on: January 26, 2013, 04:42:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just watched the Benghazi hearings interview of Clinton.

Not sure what bothered me more, Clinton's angry reaction or some of the complete, off the wall, ridiculous questions and statements being made by Rand Paul.

How can Paul Ryan be such an intelligent and basically good person and his son such a stupid ass.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #666 on: February 10, 2013, 04:28:25 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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So, apparently, there is a book coming out which makes the claim that Benghazi was retaliation for some special ops raids run under John Brennan, who was given "carte blanche to run operations in North Africa and the Middle East, provided he didn’t do anything that ended up becoming an exposé in The New York Times and embarrassing the administration."  Allegedly, these operations were run in Libya without informing the CIA or Ambassador Stevens.  The implication seems to be that either would have increased security due to the potential of blowback, had they been aware.

The authors also suggested that Petraeus was brought down by a "coup" inside the CIA that was upset about his focus on drones and paramilitary action instead of intelligence gathering.  Since Brennan is nominated to replace Petraeus, one might wonder if some of this is coming from leaks inside the CIA trying to shoot down Brennan's appointment.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #667 on: February 10, 2013, 04:29:34 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Muslim person kills Americans.  Response = deploy all 4 branches of military and rage an open ended holy war in the Mid East

White person kills Americans.  Response = protect their 2nd amendment right to buy huge magazine clips for their automatic weapons


So much underlying racism in today’s GOP it makes me want to puke.

So you think if White Foreigners were killing american diplomats abroad it wouldnt be an issue?

Murder is murder.  Why the double standard?

Just to put the fact out there, murder is not just murder, all the time.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #668 on: February 10, 2013, 04:32:37 PM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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So, apparently, there is a book coming out which makes the claim that Benghazi was retaliation for some special ops raids run under John Brennan, who was given "carte blanche to run operations in North Africa and the Middle East, provided he didn’t do anything that ended up becoming an exposé in The New York Times and embarrassing the administration."  Allegedly, these operations were run in Libya without informing the CIA or Ambassador Stevens.  The implication seems to be that either would have increased security due to the potential of blowback, had they been aware.

The authors also suggested that Petraeus was brought down by a "coup" inside the CIA that was upset about his focus on drones and paramilitary action instead of intelligence gathering.  Since Brennan is nominated to replace Petraeus, one might wonder if some of this is coming from leaks inside the CIA trying to shoot down Brennan's appointment.

Holy crap. That is quite exciting.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #669 on: February 10, 2013, 05:07:38 PM »

Online BballTim

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Muslim person kills Americans.  Response = deploy all 4 branches of military and rage an open ended holy war in the Mid East

White person kills Americans.  Response = protect their 2nd amendment right to buy huge magazine clips for their automatic weapons


So much underlying racism in today’s GOP it makes me want to puke.

  I guess going through life with a "whatever explanation makes the opposing party look worse is the best explanation, no matter how far removed from reality it is" motto must be tough on the digestive tract. Bummer.

 

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