Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 51866 times)

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Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #630 on: November 18, 2012, 03:03:49 PM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.
I think both sides are equally bad. I think the Clinton administration was pretty corrupt. I think the Bush administration extremely corrupt. But I also think the first Bush administration and the Obama administration haven't been corrupt.

Two Dem and two Reps. Each with their scandals and each with their rather scandal-less administrations.

BTW I think I know that you were being facetious. At least I think you were.

  No, he's genuinely upset that not everyone feels that democrats are morally superior to republicans.

I'm more amused than upset.

  So are the rest of us.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #631 on: November 18, 2012, 03:06:14 PM »
I view Obama and GWB as on par once you correct for media bias.

That'll probably work about as well as unskewing polls to correct for obvious bias.
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Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #632 on: November 18, 2012, 03:11:51 PM »
I thought the whole Bush administration was crooked. US Justice scandal, Plame scandal, Katrina handling, Patriot Act, torturing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, Tom Delay, Haliburton, Albert Gonzales, and that guy that ripped off the Indian tribes in Louisiana are just the tip of the iceberg.

  Some of that's grasping for straws. The Patriot act? And Katrina was about as much of a scandal for Bush as the BP oil spill was for Obama.
By the Patriot Act I meant some of the unauthorized and illegal wire tapping and email perusing done in the name of the Act by the administration. There was a name for that scandal I can't remember it like the NSA wire tap scandal or something like that.

By Katrina I meant the entire delayed handling of the situation but also much of the corrupt and ridiculous handling in the Homeland security area that gave tons of money to temporary lodging companies(a temp home building company and the cruise ship companies that were overpaid hundreds of millions for temporary lodging that never got used).

I don't think that or Abramhoff or some of the other stuff is grasping for straws at all. Corruption within the administration and the Republican Party is what led to Democrats coming back into power(that along with the economy).

  I'd say that the economy and "war fatigue" accounted for at least 90% of what led to the democrats killing in the 2008 election. I also think that there are two types of scandals being discussed, anything that happens under a president vs things that a president has knowledge of or involvement in. For instance, Bush probably knew about how the prisoners were being interrogated at Gitmo, I doubt if he oversaw how much money was paid for lodging for Katrina victims.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #633 on: November 18, 2012, 06:14:30 PM »
I thought the whole Bush administration was crooked. US Justice scandal, Plame scandal, Katrina handling, Patriot Act, torturing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, Tom Delay, Haliburton, Albert Gonzales, and that guy that ripped off the Indian tribes in Louisiana are just the tip of the iceberg.

  Some of that's grasping for straws. The Patriot act? And Katrina was about as much of a scandal for Bush as the BP oil spill was for Obama.
And the newest "Storm of the Century" is turning into, according to some victims who are still waiting for help.
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Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #634 on: December 14, 2012, 12:47:18 PM »
And Rice withdraws nomination for SoS. Think her being under oath testifying about Benghazi and watching her go down in flames would have been fun, but like Patreus, I'm glad she did honorable thing and walked away.

Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #635 on: December 14, 2012, 12:58:24 PM »
And Rice withdraws nomination for SoS. Think her being under oath testifying about Benghazi and watching her go down in flames would have been fun, but like Patreus, I'm glad she did honorable thing and walked away.

Your schadenfreude aside, I thought what she did was pragmatic, but it was disappointing. I am surprised that she let McCain and Graham run her off like that, or that the President allowed it to happen.

I think its just plain wrong to pretend like Susan Rice didn't deserve some criticism, or that there wasn't a case to be made to deny her the Sec of State position, but McCain and Graham were just insufferable partisan posterboys this whole time.

Jon Stewart highlighted the hypocrisy well:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-28-2012/legends-of-the-fault

Quote from: Raw Story
“Unfortunately, that’s not really a fair one-to-one comparison, because Susan Rice admitted to the error within weeks — these two still refuse to acknowledge that invading a country based on information from a source named ‘curveball’ was actually considered a pretty (crappy) idea by many at the time,” Stewart said.

“If only we had a more direct comparison to make here. Like another high-ranking government official passing what they knew at the time was misleading intelligence to the American public on a Sunday news show, also in line to become secretary of state, and was African American, and a woman, and lets say her name was also Rice. That’d be something.”

Stewart then played a clip of Condoleezza Rice suggesting that Iraq was attempting to build a nuclear weapon, along with clips of McCain and Graham saying it was wrong to criticize her.

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Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #636 on: December 14, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »
The two are not even close to similar.

Condi was going off official inteli reports.

Susan was going off official campaign memos. Corker (who I don't like) was just interviewed and said "we would have given her a hearing, but I don't think she'd have been confirmed, she's always been a partisan and the SoS position should be diplomat who can give advice to the pres, not execute his political tasks." I think that sums it up.

If you think Powell or Rice were political operatives you just don't have a good handle on who they are. They are both highly independent people.

Plus no schadenfreude here - I said I'd have had fun watching her under oath, but it didn't happen. Hence no pleasure.



Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #637 on: December 14, 2012, 01:28:36 PM »
The two are not even close to similar.

Condi was going off official inteli reports.

Susan was going off official campaign memos.

That's not accurate. She was going off of what the Administration told her, AND what the intelligence community was telling her. She wasn't just a shrill for the Obama campaign unless Patraeus was as well.

And if you're saying Rice 1.0 was 'only going off of intelligence reports', and that the Bush administration had no hand in what she said, I think that's also inaccurate.

In the end, two women told falsehoods. Turns out McCain and Graham only had a real issue with the democrat, and jumped to the defense of the republican.

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Offline nickagneta

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #638 on: December 14, 2012, 01:29:41 PM »
The two are not even close to similar.

Condi was going off official inteli reports.

Susan was going off official campaign memos.
Yeah I don't think you can definitively state that both women were not doing the exact same thing. Susan Rice was stating what she was told to say and what she thought was good intel. If the people above both women were feeding them bad info, its pretty hard to blame either woman.

One difference being, Condi Rice was in the Bush inner circle of policy makers and may have known more. Susan Rice is not in the White House inner circle of policy makers.

But as I said, in both cases I think you are shooting the messenger over the message and not the people who sent the message.
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Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #639 on: December 14, 2012, 04:34:58 PM »
The two are not even close to similar.

Condi was going off official inteli reports.

Susan was going off official campaign memos.
Yeah I don't think you can definitively state that both women were not doing the exact same thing. Susan Rice was stating what she was told to say and what she thought was good intel. If the people above both women were feeding them bad info, its pretty hard to blame either woman.

One difference being, Condi Rice was in the Bush inner circle of policy makers and may have known more. Susan Rice is not in the White House inner circle of policy makers.

But as I said, in both cases I think you are shooting the messenger over the message and not the people who sent the message.
We'll have to agree to disagree - but everything I've seen shows that CIA and foreign intelligence supported exactly the facts Condi laid out. Everything I've seen is the video line was inserted by the WH, and the political timing supports it.


Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #640 on: December 14, 2012, 04:37:38 PM »
The two are not even close to similar.

Condi was going off official inteli reports.

Susan was going off official campaign memos.
Yeah I don't think you can definitively state that both women were not doing the exact same thing. Susan Rice was stating what she was told to say and what she thought was good intel. If the people above both women were feeding them bad info, its pretty hard to blame either woman.

One difference being, Condi Rice was in the Bush inner circle of policy makers and may have known more. Susan Rice is not in the White House inner circle of policy makers.

But as I said, in both cases I think you are shooting the messenger over the message and not the people who sent the message.
We'll have to agree to disagree - but everything I've seen shows that CIA and foreign intelligence supported exactly the facts Condi laid out. Everything I've seen is the video line was inserted by the WH, and the political timing supports it.

There are multiple quotes floating around about how she (S Rice) was being pressured by the CIA to put out a certain version of events.

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Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #641 on: December 14, 2012, 05:49:12 PM »
No one had a witch hunt after 9/11.   I think this was clearly politicized and is continuing to be politicized.   Nothing will bring the victims back, we all want to get the perps.  Denying this woman who has served the country well an office fixes nothing.   

It's all a ploy to get Kerry so they can run Scott Brown against whomever...

Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #642 on: December 15, 2012, 09:39:37 AM »
No one had a witch hunt after 9/11.   I think this was clearly politicized and is continuing to be politicized.   Nothing will bring the victims back, we all want to get the perps.  Denying this woman who has served the country well an office fixes nothing.   

It's all a ploy to get Kerry so they can run Scott Brown against whomever...
Denying her an office? She's not entitled to it and the senate is happy to give her a hearing on the matter. She (probably on Obama's request) withdrew from consideration. Probably because she would either have to lie under oath or expose uncomfortable truths during confirmation hearings.

SoS might be the second most important job in the executive office (maybe Attorney General or SoT are on par.) You have to pass Senatorial scrutiny to get that job. As for Scott Brown? I think Kerry is an atrocious, but safe pick for the admin. Kerry - who in my opinion committed treason when he met with VC leadership in France - was rejected by the public as POTUS because of his foreign policy credentials. But the senate won't reject one of their own, sets a bad precedent for when the next guy takes a leap.

Scott Brown would be better off running for Governor. If he wins Senate race, he'll be in same position: running for Senate after a couple of years during a POTUS election, where he'll face lots of pressure from up ticket. Gov in MA is always during the midterm, where the voting populace of MA is much more favorable for him.

If Republicans could play the long game as you describe Romney would be pres. You are giving them too much credit.

Offline Rondo2287

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #643 on: January 24, 2013, 12:56:11 PM »


Got a chuckle out of this one
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Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #644 on: January 24, 2013, 12:59:52 PM »


Got a chuckle out of this one

Why in the Benghazi thread?

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